Beastofwar

This is true.. And if you did observe : FLAK clouds almost never kill aircraft flying into your AA zone.....they kill aircraft flying out of your AA zone. Probably because you can't dodge what you can't see coming from behind, or aircraft are just more vunerable to explosion to the rear. So it does not stop them from dropping weapons on you, if they come around for another pass they will not enter that outer heavy AA zone so that will not be stopping more weapons dropped, but when they are exiting THEN they are shot by FLAK clouds.....not preventing damage on you......yeah that is what WG programmed.

Well we agree on something here... My usual order is : - Search&Destroy DD while mapping the enemy fleet just outside their AA range. When no DD are to be found unload rockets on a solitary BB or Cruiser upper structure. - After 1-2 strike launches on DD switch to torpedo's going for BB or match score will end up low. - Torpedo solitary BB's for bulk of damage score. - Remove irritating cruisers ( torpedo, dive bomb, TiT ) if they protect other BB, torpedo rest of BB. - Remove eventual remaining Cruiser with dive bombers. - Enable team to shoot the enemy CV by spotting it. If there is no team left go after it with CV ( secondaries ) and aircraft. I know it would be better for the team if CV died much earlier, but aircraft cost a lot of credits and attacking a CV is not really cost effective and can hamper your ability to helpt the team and get a higher score result if you lose many aircraft early in the match. Besides that you either have to fly around the whole map or overfly most of their heavy AA to get to a CV before late match, so that is not practical.

It is worth the points because it synergyzes with 20 % more range for guns up to 139 mm - almost all DD main guns and some Cruiser main guns get 20 % more range that is a lot - and it increases the range of secondary guns - of all sizes, even 203 mm ones - 20 % as well. I know the latter does not seem to interest anyone for some reason. The AA part of that skill....well may you are right....on it's own it is unimpressive but it is 15 % more damage when it hits aircraft. But it negates the aircraft armour skill and overpowers it by 5 %. WG may assume you use it together with the AA ship module which gives you 2 more FLAK cloud explosions increasing that effect. When you take only 1 AA skill the effect may not really give impressive results. But when you take all AA skills - for example for a dedicated AA cruiser - and modules these skills/modules strenghten each other. For DD with dual purpose main guns you would hurt your performance not taking it....

He does have little imagination....

Graf Zeppelin has secondaries with a range that can go up to ~9 km. Why on earth would you not use it and get you aircraft shot ? Aircraft cost a lot of credits you know.....and it is doubtfull they will sink a CV, let alone 2 of them.

Did you have the impression looking at those ribbons i spend my time secondary everthing from match start ? I said it is a late game option, against DD and CV. When every other ship is dead and poses no threat, or when i will die anyway. But previous games it almost - someone else killed me first - killed a CL too. It is often better then fleeying to some corner of the map, as you can't fight other CV - or AA cruisers - with aircraft very well but you can still score XP and credits with secondaries. Losing ships cost you nothing, you pay full service costs anyway.....lost aircraft do cost you !

All CV are able to secondary fight DD and other CV i do this late game all the time. Because all the "better" players have sunk by then*, and it is CV against CV. But with this GZ and Kaga in greater numbers however other CV are at a disadvantage going secondary. But then again, aircraft are almost useless against CV when their AA is enhanced, you need other weapons. And what was that crap about "better" players ? Am i not to fire on in game enemies because i could have looked up their stats before i fired on them ??? What a redicoulous remark to make ! *

It does not underperform.....my damage would have been much higher if the other Graf Zeppelin not continued to kill ships just before it hit them, lol. And read the manner of my destruction, this is the way i like to die !....The match was decided by 2 CV against 1 CV with all the rest of the ships in Neptune's garden. That is why secondaries are more important then self proclaimed Guru's make them out to be.....with this CV's special secondaries it's even beyond discussion in late match surviving CV to CV combat.

Players that want to buy these CV should just know they are not OP ships and the regular tech tree ones are just as powerful, maybe even more powerful just like all modern premiums seem just a tad weaker then their tech tree counterparts. Modern premiums are nothing like the Guilio Cesare, or Kamikaze R and such ships anymore. But....they are not bad CV either...they all have very awkward traits that can be used to effect when you get used to them. Awkward traits can have the effect surprising enemy players with unexpected behaviour. The torpedo bombers for example have such high speeds if you keep using acceleration boost enemies can't evade before torpedo's are in the water. The only problem being you will be probably trying to deccelerate all of the actual attack run to get the aiming window sufficienty narrowed to get all torps in the target ship. The dive bombers are rather easy : they will drop exact at the where the reticule was when you entered the attack run....so you don't lead that as the other dive bombers require. So a first play will probably disappoint hard and the following attempts probably too. But getting the hang of their awkward features they will do much better. not OP, but on par with tech tree ships. You pay for amusement i guess, for getting something diffrent getting the same rsults.

Would be priceless if it were actually true....but not really of import since we can't properly detect and fight them yet. The depth charge racks/launchers/mortars and Hedgehog launchers s on DD and CL are mere models now.....but a little too detailed modelled for specific ships to have no purpose at all i suppose. But i have seen more "work in progres" ships tested that are not in game yet. And these did do damage.

I'm not sure which DD do that but some specific ones really hurt my squadrons attacking them, most notably in the surprising wall of FLAK clouds they put up when there is no ( concealed ) AA cruiser or BB near that could be mistaken for doing that.......they almost seem "mini AA cruisers" .....the effect of dual purpose main guns that appear in high tiers ?

Always told the no CV moaners to go to Tier 1-3, although Tier 3 might see CV and 3 per side also. So indeed Tier 1-2 if CV are that much of a problem. What is the point of playing late WWII ships that were covered from bow to stern with AA guns - IRL and in game - if you don't want to see aircraft ??

I may add that all the captain points that make changes as little as 5 % or 10 % probably have a likewise effect on score if at all. 0.25 sec or 0.5 sec faster closing reticules ( when it closes in 5 sec anyway ) won't make you magically always hit targets for full damage.....were that the case WG would nerf these skills or not have put them in like that the first place. That is why i like the skills/modules that make the ship behave in different ways - actually make it do stuff that it can't without - then skills that merely give a very weak boost in damage. This is what happens when captain skills do not work or are reduced to 50 % and/or you do not use a 19 point captain....not much difference from a run-of-the-mill match really as ~ 100 k damage is not a stellar score but it is not that bad either.

Yet you told me stronger AA would be useless on CV in another topic as the first attack always comes through and exiting aircraft die anyway. Ofcourse it will surprise no one that i use this to increase secondary range, often forgotten weapons that will help kill DD, CV and depending on what CV it is even Light Cruisers in late match situations were only a few battered ships remain that often hunt you. CV often survive as the last ships, against other surviving CV aircraft alone might not give you the edge ( especially not if they did go AA spec ) Secondaries make the difference then, match timer allowing. I agree cpompletely for a change.....DB spend most of their attack in the inner zone rings of AA, that means a lot of continuous non avoidable damage. For me this works avoiding being deplaned, at most i will have to use another type aircraft for 1 launch to have the ones i want replenished to a full squadron again. That way i found out rocket fighters are quite usable against capital ship superstructures as well. I still wonder if i should take this. The Graf Zeppelin's insane approach speed should give more or less the same effect in denying reaction time preventing evasive action often resulting in all torpedo's hitting lumbering BB. But i am fearfull it won't result in losing less aircraft, so the other choice could be still more usefull in practise.

Who says "team" play does not work ? The concensus seems to be CV cannot be sunk untill mid-late match. Just a few minutes ago i was shown this to be a failed concept of thinking as i was very nearly sunk just after a few minutes after match start. How was this done ? Simple : by 2 CV's focussing their torpedo bombers on a single enemy CV, catching it in old RTS style "torpedo sandwich" from which there is no escape taking damage. This was so succesfull i lost 3/4 of my CV health when they finally ran out of aircraft...or lost the appetite to continue. Because of their continuous spotting there was even 21 km or so incoming BB shells as well, despite me bing near the rear map edge far behind allied lines. No "concealment" would have mattered. Lucky for me i am a "clueless noob" that actually has heavily invested in strenghtning my CV's AA so that cost these 2 CV dearly with torpedo bombers they could not recover. After the 2nd attack they came with divebombers. But still i needed to litterally defend my CV with my own aircraft dumping fighter consumables around it, not being able to attack enemy ships myself. !! Had i not done that, they would have succeeded. In other words : they shut me down completely, but failed because of my captain skill point distribution. Because they failed they could no longer help their team and lost. I was still alive and could resume attacking the enemy ships. And eventually exact revenge upon those CV. What i want to say is : - Changing "Meta" means players changing strategy and tactics. Since there are 2 CV on each side players begin to exploit combining their power...because they can. - There are always players that come up with unusual tactics that can make you lose if you play and invest points in a predicatble manner. Without extreme punishig enhanced AA i would have sunk. - there are no "wasted" skill point for every situation. - You cannot do anything "wrong" as CV that will would not have put you in danger ( except for not moving ) since these guys hunted me and were planning that before the match. - They were not stupid as they would have sunk CV players without enhanced AA for certain. When you see your CV sinking after a few minutes after match start, who would be called stupid you think ? - Maybe they were succesfull with this before and/or did so in more matches and could start a broad accepted strategy of doing this in every 4 CV match......

You say it yourself : you should not overfly ships with such a course that will have you fly straight over their whole fleet making this not work. As you have insane - comet atmosphere entry - speed you can come in at any angle you like, so choose a course that will not have you overfly the whole enemy fleet. And that "F" thing when you blitzed out of their outer AA reach does work.....i do this all the time, get all of them back in safety that did not die during the pass itself. Does not matter what they overfly when safely high up returning to CV. Other CV aircraft get usually whacked by long range AA in the back ( can't effectively dodge what you cant see coming ) trying to exit the outer ring AA zone , so these insane speed escaping GZ aircraft are special being able to get away. You should use it.

Fring AA from smoke if you are not a decent AA (specced) cruiser is a very big mistake. From above having a close look at the smoke cloud as you pass over the origins of the tracers give a pretty good idea where the ship is, you need no unicum skills to hit where the tracers came from. Just memorise the spot and never take your eyes off it when you come around for an attack pass. 2 out of 3 attacks will hit with various results. Hint : shooting AA from smoke near a reference point such as cap circle markers is even more stupid......that will be a pinpoint strike....

So read my advice 2nd above your comment ^^

I did bring it up...but there are so many topics on CV .... You are right no matter how much they try to redicule you or contradict what you say. - All aircraft turn like oil tankers overflying half of the enemy fleet which they not survive - Decellerating in a turn does not result in a sufficient tighter turn - Above mean you cannot fight DD's effectively as your divebombers use AP and rocket fighters are unable to turn tight. - Aircraft have very low HP compared to all other T8 aircraft except for Kaga's, but those have "limitless" reserves while the GZ does not. But there are plus sides : - Insane speed ( ofc using boost too ) when approaching targets leaves them unable to do anything about it. - Insane speed makes dodging FLAK unnessesary. - Insane speed can you have enjoy killing spree's of low HP enemy ships late match as them being scattered all over the map makes no difference to you. - Not attempting to turn around you can just "blitz" over targets accelerating out with low losses. "'F" when out of the FLAK outer ring, immiditatly lauch again with other aircraft. You probably should get used to making 1 single attack pass with rediculous speed in a straight line in and out, and then "F" when out of their AA range. Remember you can be back at the target from the CV in mere seconds because of the insane speed you should probably skill into even further. Trying to turn obviously kills you, so you should probably abandon that with this CV or suffer for it. WG designed this specific CV this way not by accident, they will probably not "fix" it.

Dude...combined damage - that is the thing i use, not ONLY secondaries but BOTH aircraft AND secondaries - almost ate the light cruiser there too....Helena has 28.7 HP stock, took 22.2 K before the BB blapped me. This can be an indication (some) CV scondaries just stepped up their game to include light Cruisers.... You do know there is a 10 point captain in that, that came with it 3 days ago do you ? It hasn't reached its full potential yet, and even then it shows such promise. And you guys should stop pretending i kamikaze into enemies with a CV at map start......i do it only late match to cap/win/get payback/go out fighting before i sink anyway.

What a brilliant idea......only HE rockets and HE bombs to relieve the already paradise like existence of DD players, and to compensate for no torpedo's you get these HE weapons on steroids..........that will sit really well with DD players, it is not like they already declared their game in fact has died.... I will take it though......but i do agree DD life is hell right now, this will not exaclty improve things either.....

Rest assured, i will keep the secondary module, Demolition Expert and Advanced Fire Training..... Because "once you past the lance point, it's like killing rabbits" And this was a mere DD.....killing CV with it is even more fun. Would you believe that cruiser went under half HP too before i finally went down ? And it was a BB that killed me. Good last stand by any standards.

Well that makes sense...no points in +1 fighters then.

Curious..i use this all the time, mostly to remove enemy fighter consumables launched by ships preventing me to attack them, or being dropped over DD by enemy CV. Or to defend friendly DD or ships from enemy CV attack. My line of thinking is my fighter consumbable needs to overcome target ship AA for long enough to send off the protecting enemy fighters consumable, so +1 fighter should be more usefull then the standard fighter consumable. ( that does do the trick as well as fighter consumables always seem to be send off after having engaged something ) And now i have discovered i can fly right through enemy fighter consumables with Kaga Mega Squadrons since losing some aircraft to fighter consumables will not do much to their attack potential, +1 fighter could be the thing needed to hurt them just a little bit more. Ofc not all enemy CV will be Kaga and that possible beneficial effect being situational.

Wrong game ? WT tank players weren't exactly thrilled to see them either. Why would they be welcome in this game ? I would not mind but i don't see the early or modern ones posing any threat to ships with multiple .50 mg and heavier AA. Besides that, naval helicopters to my knowledge are purely anti-submarine or sea rescue.....at most boarding marines. We don't have these roles in game. They are not meant to attack ships, even a small patrol/torpedo boat would probably be powerfull enough to gun an unarmoured naval helicopter down. A Destroyer would easily do that. Naval helicopters are usually not armoured attack helicopters the army used/uses.