Beastofwar

I think i saw dual purpose guns mentioned as being a very important introduction to ships at high tiers only......mid-late war development it is probably based on aswell. Without dual purpose firing main guns DD only have some light AA.

Is that something abnormal in your book ? Almost all tier VIII Cv matches are ( mixed ) Tier IX-X. Well maybe that will work but it is missing AFT. I am sure it was his long/medium range FLAK damage that did described instant squadron deletions. I'm almost sure that is the work of enhanced dual purpose main guns at work.....and increased damage (radius) FLAK clouds ......not some small caliber stuff. So i gues if you have dual purpose main guns - heavy long range AA guns that is - you do well to enhance the specific damage these do......

I don't know your playing style, but if i find ships to be a real "stachelschwein" i leave them well alone. So that in fact does save them, if they are not sunk by allies quite probably to late match. Surviving that long has a way of increasing your score and resutls.......i would not call that "does not save you" at all. Wearing down AA i will only attempt when the target is using mountain ridges to avoid being shot by surface ships. Those mountain ridges prevent his AA from firing untill it is too late.....lying hidden there as a AA trap only works agianst haplessly overflying squadrons on their way to another target.....not if that AA cruiser IS the target.

So this means that long winded "Impossible to play DD after CV rework" topic is based on putting captain skil points and modules in the wrong abilities if CV seems to be your problem.... I mean everyone has to choose abilities......you can't have air attack survivability AND have a super stealthy ninja DD tailored build.....choices, choices....

Were are talking instant squadron deletion here, and obviously consistent as it killed at least 3 squadrons of CV's instant......only concentrated overlapping AA zones from multiple AA cruisers/high tier BB can do that....usually..... If you say this is normal, then DD have no reason to complain about CV ever again.....but how can such a small ship have more AA power then 300 meter long ships covered with various AA guns, including Dual Purpose main gun size ones and even heavier....

Someone else ruined my preferred CV killing method, already had 62 hits on him stacking (fire) damage fast....and especially how he did this to kill before i did He got a kraken out of it so i do not mind

You know this player has exeptional skills in a CV don't you ? The question is : do all other players get such scores in this perticular CV or CV's in general.....because only in the latter case there is a problem. And i don't know what this player does in other class ships, but you have seen such numbers from other class ship players have you ? Check the relavant topic and you will. I do that...that is why i like CV..... Pick the right DEEP skills in AA and most of it is automatic.....need only some evading you would do with falling from the sky long range shells anyway..... Fail to invest deep into AA skills ( useless eh ? ) and you are in deep sh*t probably not having a good time. Because your team obviously failed to spot and sink them ? CV are ships....you can shell and torpedo them and they do not perticularly take that well. All players learn and adapt so you typically see more formations breaking through a cap and then steaming full speed to CV starting positions. That is not always succesfull but if CV have nowehere safe to run to - if the other flank did not collapsfor them to run to - it is very easy to delete CV out of the match. In most maps CV can be hit by cruiser/BB long range fire from caps as well. It is only a matter of spotting them then......but since CV are usually not interested in other CV due to their formidable AA someone else needs to do that,. That is why DD should not rush to caps to die there after 2 mins in match......

Playing CV all the time now i can really see and feel if a player has invested deep into AA. The very same ship can be a breeze to sink or put up such AA damage that i pick another fight. Strenghtening weak AA to begin with will do little. But most Tier VIII+ ships ( when not stock ! ) have impressive AA arsenals. Strenghtening them WILL make a HUGE difference in deterring effects. And a CV that does not come back for you after an attack where you took minor damage is ULTIMATE protection, well worth the points. But i encourage anyone to not take such advice....it is against my interest that many do afterall...i like my targets to put up only weak AA so i can make 3-4 attack passes on them, and not lose many aircraft so i can hurt their team even more. Btw i have this Jean Bart ( not used it much but i have inspected its weapons ) and have attacked them with CV ofcourse....with strenghtened AA these are quite formidable.....not first choice for air attack.

I can give you an answer to that : if a CV attacks you and loses his squadron after a single pass he will probably not come back for you, as this is very hurtfull to his score potential and could have his CV practically out of aircraft if he persists........also will you have suffered minor damage compared to what that squadron - or worse returning squadrons - would have done, and returning squadrons ususually sink a ship. However if a CV player probes your ship and finds only minor AA damage after the first pass the squadron will turn around and attack again....if AA is weak and the squadron is still flying they come around and attack again. If it is the Kaga that did this they will turn around and attack again. Since you proved such a juicy target, guess where the lauch that takes off right after the last weapons hit you will be heading if you are not sinking yet ? That is the purpose of investing deep in AA......not to prevent the first lauch, but to prevent being sunk by following up attacks that will very likely not come if your ship is able to kill or heavily damage squadrons after only a single pass. The CV mechanic is built around making making several passes now, as a squadron cannot realease all its weapons at the same time as they could in RTS. So it is very hurtfull if you stop them from doing that, a single pass is not enough for them and merely herassing to you.....unless very low HP. But then anything could have killed you. The only thing sane not to invest in AA while 4 CV are present in matches is if you don't want to respec your captain all the time - this costing real money - and know after some time less people will be playing CV and the chance you see them will go down a lot. THEN it is a waste of points ! But consider this : there is still 1 CV to be released....this will prolong the period you will see many CV. After that it will calm down, probably for a long time, untill WG sees fit to realease the uneven ones....

I always attack targets of oppertunity - limitless supply of them in randoms - but by accident i seem to have worn down a dangerous AA cruiser of it's AA modules or maybe even DP turrets....as it put out hardly any AA after a few squadrons punished it with HE weapons while i had to wait for respawning full torpedo squadrons. It was really a noticable event, almost like he used "P" but some continuous damage was still done so that was not it. Is it a viable thing to do to attack a powefull AA ship ( AA cruiser, BB, CV ) with HE weapons first wrecking it's AA modules ( and DP turrets or is that AP damage ? ) to make following up attacks more succesfull ? Essentially focussing on one ship and wearing it down from full health to destruction ? Or is that wastefull as other surface ships kill it far easier and quicker ( if they do ) and you better roll up targets of oppertunity or support where required ? Never been there...yet. I wonder if some of you have.....

Finally think i saw a forum member, NoobySkooby though he said nothing when i greeted him....out of fear i suppose..... Hi did almost kill me though, was saved by the timer most litterally.....if that CV was NoobyScooby the forum member....

Misschien kunnen de bots de Mikasa wel varen dan ... But i would like more Operations as well....the same few over and over again get boring. And i would wish T8 Ops returned/are created as well.

But these are AA cruisers will initially be so powerful none of your aircraft come back. If you want to kill such a ship, it has got to be worth it in score returns. Can you imagine taking this AA cruisers AA out with 3 full squadrons deleted, but then when you finally want to feast on it's health pool in damage because it has become an AA stripped ship , some allied surface ships blast it to hell....great for team effort and all, but leaving you with low reserve aircraft and virtually no score. The other way around if surface ships whack such an AA cruiser , at least they get rewards of doing decent damage, even if a CV swoops in and takes the kill.....but not many surface ship players seem to have such priorities. AA cruisers are the usual long term survivors together with CV.....

Such ships - most ships - are wasted in a fantasy rabble encounter against ships they were never meant/designed to fight. As PvP is now. Such ships deserve a HISTORIC FAMOUS SEA BATTLE game mode where they can be used in their historic setting against their real life historic enemies that were really there. See if you then can repeat history or get defeated. If these enemies should be bots or human players i open for debate. Ofcourse a whole lot of new tech tree/premiums need to be brought to game for such a mode but do we mind that ? And many are already there....Or WG if this sells ships and draws other type players to the game that just dislike chaotic PvP in a fantasy rabble setting it is now. There will be no lack of player spots in such a game mode as often ships like the Mikasa were the Flagship with other Battleships, Armoured Cruisers and lots of destroyers attached. Goes for nearly all famous sea battles, or they would have been unimportant mere skirmishes..... The only issue is only one player can take the flagship spot per match.....but if the rewards are attractive for the other ships, this should pose no real problem.

For 2 straight days my "karma" is going down after CV matches in which i do average 60k-80k damage, win or lose. Notable fact is in those matches i was the only CV on the team and multiple DD players and others demand air cover/spotting at their location....I am happy they seem to have discovered CV can support them capping, but this went the other way : they DEMAND you do this. For some reason all of a sudden in higher tier matches it is fashionable to tell the CV player what to do ( again, seen that before but it went away for a while ) and if that CV player fails to do this, report him. I get messages that i was reported deducting -2 or -3 "karma" per match. And i get to read swearing and insults in chat, adressed at me. Now i could not give a rats [edited]about that whole ''karma" thing but the fact i get reported over "poor gameplay" or whatever offends me. There is no way i can give air cover/spotting to 3 DD spread over 3 caps even if i wanted to provide them that, which too is still my decision. This is clearly abuse of a game system not meant for that. It seems to me also the higher tier the match is, the more toxic and idiot behaving players seem to get. Long rants when losing seem quite normal. Everyone is blamed - especially the CV - for it except themselves. I can remember vaguely this is how it was in many RTS CV games too.... I do not have the impression players are better players at higher tiers......on the contrary, they seem like a band of total Makes me wonder i should even get Tier X CV...

DD players are presented with a choice : how would you like to die ? Refusing to take deep AA skills ( when you have decent AA that is such as DP guns ) = death by aircraft Not taking stealth skill = death by surface shiips, but you probably get to live longer as aircraft will get you first when vulnerable. No problem here...designed gameplay, player choice issue...

That is true, and more...

What specific tier ( or tier range ) do the DD complaints come from anyway ? At higher tier i encounter DD's that put many a AA cruisers to shame in the AA damage they can whip my squadrons with.....some managing to kill entiry squadrons fast. Very noticable they have heavy AA in form of dual purpose main guns.... Are all these complaints of DD players before dual purpose guns are used ? Or just DD players that don't want to spec deep enough in AA as they think it is a "waste of points" to take them....then they contradict themselves ofcourse as they do need it more then anything else obvioulsy or they would not be complining they get killed so fast.... So what is happening ? This can't be a Tier IX-X DD thing....

And probably the reason why CV can't just be nerfed when some players think some feature is too strong in randoms ...that would handicap a class in other enviroments too much.

Does not some very old book on how to wage war, much older then the Zulu's rise to power, state "Do not attack uphill" ? Who says the Chinese never had contact with Africans/Zulu's ? That is Western supremacy thinking.....

That makes sense as in more organized enviroments as clan battles there are presumably less or no targets of oppertunity making themselves isolated and vulnerbale to air attack...

Why not go down while trying to ram them ? And all the time your secondaries are in range they will still rack you up some more credits and XP, even when completely deplaned. And if you are executed well before that - which seems plausible with 4 Minotaurs .....why even bother to suicide ? Your team just failed to kill dangerous AA cruisers that shut down their side's CV....not too bright. But what else is new ?

While this may often be the case, i always think of the Shaka Zulu mini series/film where recrute and nobody Shaka Zulu is told to fight with cumbersome sandals on hif feet, tripping over them constantly and throw his spear away at the enemy, for them to pick it up and throw back.... Because that is the way fighting should be done and there is no debate possible....all knowing " wise generals" command and always know better......someone new had better listen to them..... All Shaka says is rediculed and mocked....you see similar things on this forum too by similair "wise generals"" as he is a nobody and the others are respected generals, or somebodies. His "stats" tripping over his sandals all the time and doing well in that what he is told to do are poor as well..... That ends when Shaka in a battle shows the flaws of what these "wise generals" think is mandatory tactics. By charging - with bare feet unhindered now - the thrown spears under cover of his large shield, deshieldig the enemy and stabbing him with the spear he did not throw away. Rest is history, that guy became very powerful for a while. While this may seem off topic, it is a very good example you can sometimes ignore "wise generals" if they clearly stubborn conservatist that simply want bathe in their "all knowing" status.....if you know you are right with other tactics. I'm sure there are many stories, books and films with the very same subject. As stubborn conservatist that know all better are to be found everywhere. And young/new inexperienced guys knowing better too.

I will always end low HP enemies...often requires only a single stirke.......that is part of what CV do right ? A kill ribbon should be worth 15 % of a ships full health in damage, plus the HP that ship had had left...... And from WR perspective : floating ships are still dangerous. Can hurt your team and with that WR, that is important to some....i'm only interested in actual XP and credits. These reards are higher when winning.....

I hated it's rediculously weak aircraft trying not to lose too many, it's 203 mm secondaries were robbed 1 sec from sinking an enemy CV because of their low ROF when the timer ran out so using it's rediculous powerfull secondaries still did not happen so i was not that impressed with it. But in other CV you need to preserve aircraft.....in Kaga you must learn to sacrifice them if you can get damage in return always. If you learn to do that, you can rock with that thing....it is the closest concept of "Kamikaze attack " you get in WOWS......except attacking with the old overpowered DD named similair ofc. It is only Kaga that is able to ignore enemy fighter consumables, when these fighters strike, they only kill but a part of the very large squadron and disband. In other words...the fighter consumbale will not stop or delay attack from Kaga. Why sacrifice aircraft and not wait for the fighter consumable to run out of time ? Why not play to preserve these aircraft too ? Because you will end the match with lower score and masses of (cheap ! ) reserve planes unused ! You need to zerg with them ! Funny concept for a CV what ? Torpedo bombers drop 4 tight and straight pattern torpedo's in the water of which all usually hit BB, and can do that many times even if part of the squadron got killed which happens a lot as they have very low HP. And if none return, there is a fresh new squadron waiting to immidiatly use again. And again. No BB can stand up to such power. I regularly kill multiple BB's that have broken through a cap looking for CV's to shoot at their original start position that way, one by one. So by playing Kaga like a retard ( if it were any other CV that is ) you can actually rack up high scores and win matches......Ultimate noob friendly machine this is. And the joke of it is probably it will suck in experienced CV players hands.....because they play it wrong ( try to preserve aircraft ) in the beginning.