SeaMonsterUK

Because the 14" shells were fired at ranges of 5000 yards and below before they made any kind of penetration, Bismarck is the superior vessel at range when it's rudder is not damaged.

I have plenty of arguments, but I'm not going to argue with someone who can only place shells from other ships to substitute for a Battleship that isn't even in the game yet.

Since KGV-14" wouldn't be using NMex shells and KGV-15" wouldn't be using Warspite shells, I think you are trying to be intelligent and failing badly. And the only way you would actually make King George V-class Battleships Tier 8, is if you used 15" Guns, that being the 15"/45 Mark 2.

I'm Arrogant, you got that part right, it's apart of Human nature, for one to deny their arrogance is lying, but I'm far from ignorant. And I'm the not the one overestimating a battleship based on Armour. And Amagi has worse armour than the NC and KGV, so you didn't make much of a point here. Nelson can also work in another line, going from 15" to 16" and right down to 14" is not going to work at all in terms of immersion. KGV would be at tier 7, with a 15" version at T8 and Lion at Tier 9 and 10.

It would still struggle with same tier BB's at Tier 7 (so does the Scharnhorst but I'm sure someone will try and disprove me). At Tier 8 they can add the KGV with 15" guns all they like, the guns would have to have rounds invented for it since they are the exact same as those used on HMS Hood, but in Triple rather than Double battery arrangements.

I prefer Numbers and Tables: Above is the 11" SK C/34 and the bottom is the 14" Mark VII. Penetration of the former is better than the latter at mid to long range, where the latter has better Deck penetration. 0 yards (0 m) 23.79" (604 mm) --- 8,640 yards (7,900 m) 18.09" (460 mm) 0.76" (19 mm) 16,514 yards (15,100 m) 13.18" (335 mm) 1.63" (41 mm) 20,013 yards (18,288 m) 11.47" (291 mm) 1.87" (48 mm) 30,000 yards (27,432 m) 8.08" (205 mm) 2.99" (76 mm) 0 yards (0 m) 26.9" (668 mm) --- 10,000 yards (9,144 m) 15.6" (396 mm) 1.15" (29 mm) 15,000 yards (13,716 m) 13.2" (335 mm) 1.95" (50 mm) 20,000 yards (18,288 m) 11.2" (285 mm) 2.85" (73 mm) 25,000 yards (22,860 m) 9.5" (241 mm) 4.00" (102 mm) 28,000 yards (25,603 m) --- 4.75" (121 mm)

Any and every range? So why is it that 11" has better penetration than the 14" guns at Medium ranges or is your own reading impaired? It even says on Navweaps, or are you looking at another gun that isn't the 14" Mark VII used on the KGV itself? PS: If I was to hold any rank in the navy it would still be higher than yours PPS: Think I'll keep it there, as unlike you I don't like ships being overtiered based solely on armour.

Nope, 15" guns and the similar armour scheme of the KGV. And the other tier 9's use 16" guns of varying calibre. Lion-class can also fit Tier 10 as there was a 4x3 16" proposal. I'll have to dig around for the design name. Edit: 16E-38 - Lion-class Design proposal.

Scharnhorst has smaller guns with better mid-range penetration than the 14" guns with arguable 0 yard penetration parameters and better at extremely long range. KGV is Tier 7, end of.

Vanguard is no where near a Tier 9.

Quite harsh words considering they are coming from you. KGV, considering both guns and armour, is tier 7, the sooner you realise that, which will take a couple of centuries (which is a awfully optimistic), the better.

Not completely imaginary, just non existent on the ships that were completed. To paraphrase: The original proposal for the KGV class was to have 3x3 15" guns

Couldn't careless.

16"/45 MArk 6 0 yards (0 m) 29.74" (755 mm) --- 2,300 fps (701 mps) 0.0 5,000 yards (4,572 m) 26.60" (676 mm) 0.76" (19 mm) 2,090 fps (637 mps) 3.0 10,000 yards (9,144 m) 23.51" (597 mm) 1.87" (28 mm) 1,900 fps (579 mps) 6.8 15,000 yards (13,716 m) 20.47" (520 mm) 3.04" (77 mm) 1,743 fps (529 mps) 11.7 20,000 yards (18,288 m) 17.62" (448 mm) 4.29" (109 mm) 1,604 fps (489 mps) 17.9 25,000 yards (22,860 m) 15.05" (382 mm) 5.76" (146 mm) 1,521 fps (463 mps) 25.4 30,000 yards (27,432 m) 12.77" (324 mm) 7.62" (194 mm) 1,490 fps (454 mps) 34.1 35,000 yards (32,004 m) 10.49" (266 mm) 10.57" (268 mm) 1,531 fps (488 mps) 45.2 38cm SK C/34 0 yards (0 m) 29.23" (742 mm) --- 5,000 yards (4,572 m) 24.26" (616 mm) 0.76" (19.3 mm) 19,685 yards (18,000 m) 16.50" (419 mm) 2.96" (75.0 mm) 24,060 yards (22,000 m) 15.49" (393 mm) 4.15" (104 mm) 29,528 yards (27,000 m) 11.98" (304 mm) 5.02" (126 mm)

And as I said, at least I'm not a complete d*ck. And I've used the same source as you can see above.

0 yards (0 m) 26.9" (668 mm) --- 10,000 yards (9,144 m) 15.6" (396 mm) 1.15" (29 mm) 15,000 yards (13,716 m) 13.2" (335 mm) 1.95" (50 mm) 20,000 yards (18,288 m) 11.2" (285 mm) 2.85" (73 mm) 25,000 yards (22,860 m) 9.5" (241 mm) 4.00" (102 mm) 28,000 yards (25,603 m) --- 4.75" (121 mm) 0 yards (0 m) 23.79" (604 mm) --- 8,640 yards (7,900 m) 18.09" (460 mm) 0.76" (19 mm) 16,514 yards (15,100 m) 13.18" (335 mm) 1.63" (41 mm) 20,013 yards (18,288 m) 11.47" (291 mm) 1.87" (48 mm) 30,000 yards (27,432 m) 8.08" (205 mm) 2.99" (76 mm) Really? KGV is only better Point blank and at extreme range, but not so good in between and along the deck. My statement still stands

And none of those battleships have guns smaller than 15" in terms of main armament. A 14" gun at Tier 8 is inadequate at best.

Which ruins any chance of proper balancing or immersion.

Which one? In either case both Yamatos wouldn't be tier 2, as one would be inadequate and the other too overwhelming in both armour and firepower

Nope. The embarrassments are those wanting to overtier a ship solely based on armour, without looking at the gun, which is inferior to the guns on the North Carolina, Bismarck and Amagi class ships. At tier 8, this ship will be completely outclassed.

Navweps is a great source actually and the only embarrassment are the people still wanting this at tier 8

KGV at Tier 8 though, with 14" guns would be the most useless ship going. It would need 15" at least to make that tier which I'm not a big fan off, unless they add the original guns at Tier 7, espiecally since the 14" guns had 100mm less penetration than the 11" guns of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

HMS Vanguard will also be a premium I suspect, espiecally since it was the last Battleship to ever be completed by any nation. Unlike KGV it is more on the playing field of the NC and Bismarck.

Gneisenau shouldn't have been given 15" guns in the first place. Just Wargaming.net disacrating ships like they did to the Royal Navy line and the "Special" AP shells which are practically useless without a HE Backup to use vs Battleships.

Seeing how they fucked up the RN cruisers it will interesting to see how they [edited]up the BB line, especially with the those wanting World of Warships own KanonenJagdpanzer