SeaMonsterUK

Just a guess, but a secondary source to back up Mr3awesome now is needed for penetration. But I doubt the penetration will go up significantly.

I know. But as I said, we'll need to find a definitive source. Maybe the higher number was produced during testing of the gun, but the lower number was produced in the field with new guns.

Maybe, but some guns the heavier shell has the higher MV than the lighter shell, so most likely we'll have to find a definitive source rather than just arguing which will get us nowhere.

I would imply that the HE shells are at 757 and APC at 731.5 through testing. As you said, it's doubtful for then use just he for primary MV but results are usually found in testing.

And I doubt they'd give penetration information without saying whether the barrel is worn or not.

One you failed to provide a source and two its quite common for Warships to have 2 MVs for AP and HE/HC rounds.

Doubt that will be for 25% wear.

Don't think Navweaps are giving penetration information on warn barrels from books based once USN Empirical Formula.

And 731.5 for APC Time of flight for APC Shell with MV = 2,400 fps (731.5 mps) 10,000 yards (9,140 m): 14.1 seconds 20,000 yards (18,290 m): 32.4 seconds 30,000 yards (27,430 m): 57.4 seconds 36,500 yards (33,380 m): 83.2 seconds

Navweaps seem to suggest the APC Mk VIIB travelled slower at 731.5 mps.

Where did you get 770 from? And Navweaps has the MV at 757 ms with APC Mk. VIIB at 731.5 ms. And that is for a new barrel.

5"/38 with AAC Mk. 49 had a max range of 15,903 meters.

Doesn't matter how good the AA is on a ship, if it's going into an area without air support, it's vulnerable. Even the Iowa class which is excellent AA would be vulnerable to sustained air attack. And other ships in the KGV-class had upgraded AA, such as double the amount of 2-Pounder Pom Poms and the addition of 10 40mm Bofors and 36 20mm Oerlikons.

Technically it's historical as these were the original plans for the KGV. though most likely as is the case of Gneisenau (which should be longer), the armour won't get touched.

iirc the KGV with 15" guns would have had less belt armour anyway, so it's a fair balance.

It's 11.2" at 18288 meters for the 14" guns and 15.6" at 9144 meters. And Bismarck can penetrate 15.49" at 22'000 meters. MV for both ships: KGV: 757 mps, 731.5 for APC Bismarck: 820 mps

Bismarck can out perform KGV at short-medium range as well due to Belt armour penetration. Also a heavier broadside won't necessarily cause greater damage. And Bismarck's guns have a faster rate of fire, of between 2.3-3.0 rounds per minute, compared to the 2.0 of the 14" guns.

Bismarck's main armament is capable of countering KGV's armour, where KGV can barely do the same in return, and there is a massive deficit between them in terms of offensive firepower, which means in every engagement in game, Bismarck will likely come out on top 9/10 times.

She wouldn't be a Tier 9 ship at all, no matter the gun choice and Lion-class 1938 which has the same armour layout + 16" guns, would be the better tier 8, besides that, there are 4 separate designs of the Lion, each bigger than the next. In comparison, if she was at tier 7, yes she would be the most armoured ship there, but all ships at that tier can penetrate her armour and all except Gneisenau can out gun her. And she'll still likely have the worst secondary gun armament and second worst offensive gun armament.

I think the bolded part with my handy underlining can also speak for itself. This also makes the Lion-class 1938 a more viable candidate for a Tier 8 Battleship for the British tech tree than King George V does.

Her armour maybe superior (which it is in some ways but not all such as the belt for example) yes, but her offensive power is severely lacking compared to the Bismarck and NC.

Gun that were to be on the KGV was 15"/45 Mark 2's, not the /42 Mark 1s. Also, all my data on the 14" guns, show that the KGV would be inferior to both Bismarck and North Carolina at all ranges, yes you can penetrate one, but not the citadel so you want cause any major damage to any of them. Edit: Also another thing to point out, she has the worst secondary armament in comparison to Bismarck, North Carolina and Amagi.

Going by facts alone, means WG would have had to have done something terribly wrong to put those same 14" guns on a tier 8 ship. I really don't see any other option for her, but either nerfed for tier 7 or buffed for tier 8, either way it will make purists mad. And any sensible buff for tier 8 will mean 15" guns.

From what I can tell, and with information in comparison to the deck and belt penetration between the British 14" and German 11", the British gun has a higher arc, so British KGV won't be better at brawling either, that goes straight to Bismarck hands down.

I'd still say Bismarck is still better. And Amagi has appalling armour for it's tier.