Figment

I would like to offer an alternative way to do the (Dutch) air strike ability. Ships with the air strike ability would call in air strikes from an AI support CV (T3-4 CV more or less, converted oil and grain transports). The pathing of the support CV is determined by the player. These would be light support carrier class CVs that the Dutch used to have during WWII. The player would have to position the carrier by AI pathing it as they would a CV using the map. Calling in an air strike calls in an air raid from said carrier Planes on the carrier are limited like they are on a CV Air travel time is related to the location of the CV Killing the CV or all aircraft ends the Air Strike ability for that ship Killing aircraft weakens the Air Strike ability over time The AI aircraft aren't smart, attacks are pre-determined by the player upon the moment of calling them in. Planes are spotted from a distance and on the mini-map as per usual aircraft. Support CVs cannot cap Support CVs do not count as alive players Support CVs do not create points if killed If its cruiser is killed the support CV finishes its pathing and stops there Support CVs have light secondaries and possibly a fighter for AA. This would open up the ability to other nations with support CV, like the Brits and Commonwealth. I know, not going to happen, but the current situation seems hopelessly poorly balanced.

They'll probably want to keep some sort of air strike in, might as well make it something you can at least counter and fight back at relatively easily compared to this state it is in.

Please visit any thread about Dutch cruisers/ships tech trees prior to the announcement, and quickly realise your capacity to analyse is absolute [NULL]. You couldn't be more wrong. Worse, "the whole notion"? It doesn't exist. Quote me. If you can't, I expect you to beg on your knees for forgiveness that you put words in my mouth because you can't analyse, debate and argue a point without projection and strawmanning. And no, you're clearly not a genius. I however, am actually literally a rocket scientist... (aerospace engineer, in the future maybe leave the analysis to experts, will you?) That sounds like an addict's playing time. I can do three hour sessions, but daily? Ever had small children and a job and... a life? This company asks money equal to 5 star quality game for a single unit DLC. I know a lot of people are duped into the abstraction of dubloons hiding the actual cost of purchases, but I can actually do maths. I'm not an idiot. Stop responding? Gee, I wonder if anyone ever considered the pros and cons of this thusfar in this thread. Good argument............? You havn't read a single post I've made and just argued against your imaginary friends/foes, have you? No wonder you're resorting to strawmanning, you have absolutely no idea who you're talking to and what their stance is. :/ Genius my arse. If you had actually read ANY of my posts on the previous page, you'd have noticed this argument has been adressed and debunked and is not a satisfactory solution, because it's not a solution, nor a work around, costs a lot of time and furthermore costs additional money. Why can't you take the courtesy of reading someone's post before responding with obsolete argument attempts.

No, I deliberately misinterpreted you in the opposite way of how you completely kept misinterpreting someone's post with your literalism. If you wern't such a literalist, you would have seen what I was doing to you and making you do exactly what you were complaining about earlier. ColonelPete, may I introduce you to your mirror.

Wow, doesn’t get the point much? So irony, sarcasm and flair are lost on you, what else?

Seen enough footage. AA is useless against it and divisions can overwhelm. Current design is poor.

Anti-submarine strike repurposed and with parachutes iirc. Regardless, both are new. Pathing ships is not, air is not. Just requires new CV art.

Yes, but the air strike ability is new as well. Thinking outside the box.

CVs are. They're not allowed to be platooned anymore in groups of two or three carriers (this used to happen a lot) and there's a max of two a side. Mostly because 7 CVs a side was a thing in beta. The German CVs also have better secondaries to compensate in part for their rockets worse performance against destroyers.

The ship however is not balanced for multiple Ise's / Tones and carriers in one match. You can rebalance this by giving it a bit more hp for use in direct combat and simply make it less dependent on torp bombers to perform well. This is called balancing.

I'd simply limit the hangar size. Once X planes are shot down, it's over. You're just a hampered Fuso from there on.

Just returning the favour. ;) You can't tell me what I can respond to and how! D: D: D: D: D: Oh wait. You just did. :) Fun eh?

Yes. I got a Skane and Friesland commander on the Pan EU line. When your Friesland is attained and invested in to prepare for an ANNOUNCED AND THEN OVER TWICE CONFIRMED CHANGE, yes, yes, it means I have lost a lot of free exp and captain exp to invest in a captain for a Dutch line. In total at least 0.6M-0.7M free exp. That's before adding ship cost of 1M free exp. This is not true. You lose a T9 commander trainer with a T9 suited captain and downgrade to a T9 commander trainer with a T1 spud and are left with a T9 commander unsuited for the line it's stuck in so you have to pay to use it on a shipline you probably already have a dedicated captain for since that shipline is about torpedoes and moving harassment, whereas the Friesland is about stealth, hydro and guns. The one other high tier premium ship on that line, the Smaland, was removed. So you can't even repurpose it for that.

Knyaz is awesome. :x I mean, it's got crap AA, but apparently better than others, range is poor (what isn't at that tier) but the angling and guns are excellent. https://wows-numbers.com/player/500575344,Figment/

Great! A perfect example. What happened to its commander? Oh yeah. You kept it and can use it on Pan EU ships. Or maybe it's not, because the Pan EU ships were added to the Blys line and the line got a name change, meaning this is not a situation where a ship is moved out of an existing line and into a different line with both lines continuing to exist, but simply an example of when an existing line got expanded.

Infinite?

1. Meaning you'd have no premium Dutch ship (as was promised the Friesland would be) until De Zeven Provinciën, but ONLY if you decide to spend additional money on it, while you can't use that captain you've been training and investing in for the new cruiser line on the new cruiser line. 2. Meaning you'd have a gunship DD captain in a torp DD environment without a ship and a Groningen without a qualified captain. And then redo the awful initial grind to get a captain that can compete at T9 where it likely be an inferior Friesland for over a year if not longer. 3. Meaning you'd have to find an additional 1M free exp from somewhere (grinding it for the Friesland took me over half a year) and then redo the awful initial grind to get a captain that can compete at T9 where it likely be an inferior Friesland for over a year if not longer, while being without a premium ship on the Dutch tech tree for even longer than with option 2. Yeah, why would you be pissed off at being given three far inferior choices to what had been confirmed, namely that your (1M free exp or $65 bought) Dutch premium would simply be transfered and your captain would be compensated for? Gee. It's nice that you have the free time to amass over 6M free exp, but not everyone has that much time to spend on a game.

Name me a line where a ship was stated to move over from another nation line? Unique situation. And no, it's not a silver plate, that captain has been fed exp and grinded for ages to prepare for this. You calling that a silver platter is you being deliberately ignorant and derogatory. I'm not asking to be spoon fed, I'm asking to keep my captain where it is, on the Friesland and to get the Friesland where it was said it would go and logically should be. If necessary by cloning since that'd be the simplest and most pragmatic way to create a Dutch captain out of a Swirsky. Whether you'd get jealous of that I don't care. Where do you get that I would claim such nonsense? Strawmanning much? De Zeven Provinciën is from a Dockyard event, which means you have to not just grind for eons but then also spend money to buy it. It was announced my premium Dutch DD would move over by Wargaming. They changed their plan months later out of the blue and suddenly I'd have to spend money and you call this a good trade? How? If you want to suck up to WG that's your choice, I'm asking them to keep their word on two announcements.

Where's the earthling tech tree though? Thing is, he said more, he specifically went out of his way, perhaps enthoustiastically speaking out of turn or misunderstanding the information he had been given, to state that there would be compensation for the commander of the Friesland. Not just something regarding the moving of the Friesland itself or suggesting that could possibly be the case, no, he gave a confirmation of compensation, without saying explicitly what that would be. That has had consequences in that players consider this official information, especially as he didn't just muse on it, he stated it as confirmed that there would be something with regards to the commander. :/ To me that comes down to a promise from the company to customers. Any subsequent actions taken by myself and others were based on that information... Think I must have spent about 600K captain and free exp on that particular captain and grinded about 250K exp on the ship, thinking I could either take the captain along or get compensated with a clone or otherwise. Please explain what good would exchanging the Friesland for a Groningen do me? On the one hand I'd have no commander to go with the ship and I'd have no free exp or captain exp to upgrade a new commander to play it with instead and on the other hand I'd have no ship to use my existing gunship commander on. Sure, I could train new Dutch captains, but that's not the only thing I use the ship for, it's one of my primary two Ranked DDs (other is Fletcher). While if I do NOT exchange it, I won't have a premium Dutch ship to train my Dutch commanders with. So basically it's a non-solution for me, as NOT exchanging the Friesland would leave me in a situation where I can still play the Friesland, but to train Dutch commanders on a premium ship I'd have to spend an additional 1M free exp on the Dutch-Dutch version of the ship I already had and was promised would move to the Dutch line and THEN grind another captain from scratch on top of that! The simplest solution is to create a Dutch clone of the captain and transfer it. Perhaps the most fair solution would be that the Friesland appears in both lines and can be crewed by both Pan EU and Dutch captains for training, but where any Dutch captains (even recruited in the Pan EU originally) would from now on be limited to Dutch ships, while you get a choice to convert say your Polish/Swedish or whatever EU commander trained for the Friesland and on the Friesland at the time of 10.6 to a Dutch commander. If it's the special Polish commander you could just reset it to its original amount of points, where the Dutch clone gets the total exp or the exp you grinded with and invested in it. That seems fair enough for me.

You implied dishonesty on part of the people who want a captain transfer by hiding this deliberately behind nationalism, when none have. What else is there to conclude than that it's a character attack?

I'm sorry, when exactly did I state it's about "my country"? I've been very clear from my first post that this is about the investment made in the Friesland captain for me and the announcement that the Friesland would be transfered and the captain would be compensated for (though apparently not everyone was aware of that statement by WG staff). I'd be fine with a full transfer rather than a captain clone too. To me a Dutch ship in a Dutch line is from a nationalistic point of view nice, but it's not my main beef with this at all and I've never made any statement of the sort. If you make claims, best not make them easily verifiable lies, shall we? Besides, you're not talking about hypocrisy there, but about wilfull deception. And that's not the case either (I've denoted amply what the consequences will be for my Friesland in multiple scenarios) and it's also pretty insulting to accuse someone of being a liar and a con when they're not. For the record, hypocrisy is being okay with something when it's convenient for you, but not okay with something when it's inconvenient to you. If you want it to be completely fair, then I'd be all fine with giving everyone the same high level Dutch commander at the start of the line. Tbh, I've never been a fan of skill point and tech tree upgrade grinds because they are inherently unfair game design by creating built in disadvantages for beginners who already lag on actual experience. Groningen/Friesland is stand alone from the cruiser line. Exactly what is insulting? if you were hypocritical, that's a statement of fact, not an insult. Being able to handle critique on one's arguments is not the same as insulting, it's just immaturity on part of the receiving end. You called me immature and deceitful just now. I'm neither. I'd love an apology, but the question is, are you mature enough for that?

Of course it does, which is why there are people who opted to spend exp on that captain and play the ship more thinking the captain would transfer along. That exp was still earned on that ship. The sole reason to want the captain transfered is to use it in the Dutch cruiser line. There's also people who probably saved up tons of captain exp to get that instant advantage. Should we block them from using free exp/captain exp to grind from 0 points? Should we block people from spending dubloons for resets because others don't? Should we block people from purchasing a 3, 6 or 10pt captain with dubloons because you don't start at 0pts? Your argument is one of convenience to you. Meanwhile you have no problem giving anyone who transfered ships (Friesland to Groningen) a massive disadvantage by removing its trained captain and replace it with a 0pt captain making it instantly worthless for use in Ranked or random high tier battles and you getting an instant advantage over them in these battles? That's called hypocrisy for personal convenience. You have no issue shafting other players for your personal jealousy and advantage as you apparently don't have a (high level) Friesland captain. This problem was created by WG through bad planning and vague announcements and half arsed promises, not the players who already owned a Friesland. It's up to WG to come up with a satisfactory compensation that doesn't hurt Friesland owners.

No, but there was this announcement: On top of a Dev blog 137 stating what would happen to the Friesland itself, it said it would move over to the Dutch tech tree line, not be replaced or exchanged. Combine these statements and you have an indication that investing in the Friesland commander would actually lead to some sort of compensation. Of which the most likely being a clone, movement or something similar that would keep your Friesland from being indirectly nerfed on an individual level by nerfing/removing the commander a player has on it. Sigh. Sure. But since you were not understanding what you were reacting to or deliberately interpreted it in a literalist trolling fashion by taking it out of WoWs context discussion of moving ships between tech trees, your reply was fundamentally wrong. This was pointed out. You doubling down doesn't make your reply any better, it just makes you arrogant by proclaiming to know better what was 'actually' meant than the author of the post...

No, because the issue is with moving BOTH the captain AND the ship, not just the ship... Say I keep the Friesland, then I won't have a Dutch premium ship with a Dutch captain to train for the Dutch cruiser line. I'll have a Pan EU premium ship with a Pan EU captain, which I can't use for the Dutch cruiser line. I'd have to save up 1M free exp to buy the Groningen, THEN start grinding a captain for what's basically the same ship with the same gameplay that I've already grinded a captain for. Why the hell would I want a duplicate ship and sink another X months into training a captain I already have, today, and was told would move over, thus invested more time and exp in? Say I exchange the Friesland for the Groningen, because I want a Dutch premium ship. I'll suddenly have a ship without a captain. It would save me a 1M grind to buy the Groningen, but I'll still have to grind a captain from scratch again. Which means over night my Friesland/Groningen becomes practically useless for the foreseeable future. because do you want to go into a T9 battle with a 0pt captain? No, you'll first have to train a new captain. Which means it'll make my Friesland/Groningen unusable for the foreseeable future, until I'd have grinded a captain to 12-15 pts with tech tree grind. While I already have a 17pt Friesland captain as is that's a very frequently used ship for Ranked for me. I'm sure there are people who invested more time in it. They'll be severely handicapped over night. Meanwhile, though I'd still have the captain in the Pan EU line, I'd have no gunship DD to go with it, so I'd have to respec it for torp DDs, which costs dubloons. You should really apply for comprehensive reading skills and stop being a literalist. It's about context. He added a bit of dramatic flair (style), to complain that the captain doesn't move along to the Dutch tech tree. This is like you argueing that someone who kicked the bucket didn't literally kick a bucket, but died.

It is. You were being obtuse. In this context a Dutch captain is a captain you can use on the Dutch tech tree, so stating the Netherlands is an European nation just makes you a troll.