mr3awsome

They are average. Slightly bigger guns, slightly larger torpedo tubes. Nothing revolutionary compared to anything else people where building. Well both were resilient, but Scharnhorst wasn't as well protected. Indeed, they retained a strong anti-surface battery. Vicker Mk 'G', manufactured by Vickers-Terni, Armstrong (UK) & Armstrong (Italy) for Cavour, da Vinci & Cesare respectively. KGV is arguably undertiered, and should be tier 8 Fixed that for you.

I think it was mentioned that it might become relevant at a later point.

That their light cruisers were mediocre at best, their destroyers were terrible (because they were terrible sea boats). Bismarck is the most overhyped Dreadnought of all time. Scharnhorst is the best of the bunch, but nothing special. The German crewmen fought with great courage. However, they didn't do a very good job other than where they had a large advantage in either numbers or quality. Or against a ship so fresh she still had dock hands, and a WWI style battlecruiser that was in serious need of a major refit. And what did Tirpitz achieve by her own merit? Nothing. And the constant attacks kept her in harbour. And thus not a problem. So the convoys kept going, and the Western Allies were able to invade France.

You can split the German tree in to two parts, the Hochsee Flotte and the Kreigsmarine & Reichsmarine The former will have very tough Dreadnoughts, but having smaller guns by way of compensation. Their light cruisers will be nifty, run of the mill stuff, some of the best around. Destroyers will be nothing special. The latter will have resilient battleships & fragile battlecruisers. The light cruisers will be immensely fragile. Destroyers will have good firepower, average torpedo battery & terrible sea keeping. Carriers will be along the standard European model; with protection taking precedence over airgroup.

Richelieu was commissioned June 1940, and refitted after joining the Free French and commissioned again in October 1943. Yamato was commissioned 16th December 1941 Littorio was commissioned 6th May 1940

Negatory. Yamato was in the water before Bismarck was even commissioned. The title of strongest prior to that would also be contested by the American North Carolina, British King George V, French Richelieu and Italian Littorio classes, each of which are broadly comparable to Bismarck. The main reason for Bismarck's fame was her one stroke of luck, followed by her being unlucky for the rest of her (short) life. That and the massive overhype caused by the "History" channel.

Thanks, they look very nice.

There is a difference between being a good target and a good ship ;)

Specifically H-39 & H-41.

Are there any details for A-140 J2 that you could provide? Or any of the ships after the H group for that matter?

Bayern will likely be a tier 6, being very comparable to the other known ones (QEs, Rs & Fuso) Same applies to the Konig's and tier 5. The Kaiser's would be tier 4, with the Nassau's at tier 3. Regarding battlecruisers, they can be tiered equally with the battleships. The same applies for all nations. The Deutschlands are an unknown.

Mogador is in the right place. Le Fantasque should be tier 9. Vauquelin & Aigle should be a tier higher than you state. L'Adroit should be tier 6 Bourrasque should be tier 5 Le Hardi should be tier 7 Prior to Bourrasque would be WWI and just after designs.

Update

Thats why I was getting confused

1) No pre-Dreadnoughts (Thats everything up to and including Danton out) 2) Battleships start from tier 3 3) Courbet is a tier 3, as she was the first Dreadnought that the French made, and is comparable to others at that tier. 4) Bretagne is a tier 4, as she was the first French Super-Dreadnought 5) the Normandie->Lyon->Dunkerque->Richelieu line of development is fine, but over tiered by 2 here.

Its gotten to the point that we just ignore Cleveland's current placement, because if it doesn't change we might as well all go home. Also, in regards to French cruisers there is a definite lack of designs until the 20s, which means the lower tiers have to be propped up by Reparations. Well in my estimations anyway.

It just struck me as a cruiser design when I looked at it. It would be quite advantageous. But then there are the purists that argue Pensacola should be a regular because of what she represents as the first US CAs.

No idea Fair enough. But I would prefer a destroyer to cap the DD line rather than a cruiser (in this instance Capita Romani & Mogador are DDs)

Apparently she was discarded because of defective or rotton timber throughout the ship.

You linked a design with 6"/47 DP guns Also, I'll need a volunteer to update the images now Daimon_Frey_89 is indisposed. Update: DD Smith removed from tree DD Sampson moved down to tier 2 DD Wickes added at tier 3 DD Farragut moved up to tier 6 DD Destroyer Leader 1919 added at tier 5 DD Benson moved up to tier 8 DD Fletcher moved to tier 9 DD Gearing to tier 10 CL Atlanta removed tier 10 of DD line

Its a foolish suggestion? Why would you purposely take away from the main lines of development. Is the T-34 premium in its main form? Is the Tiger? Is the Sherman?

Topic was detected prior to Vanhal's post. However I was in a foul mood and didn't want to post anything offensive. Now, however, I shall. 1) Everything below Lynx (inclusive) is not going to be in the game. 2) Whilst Polish sailors did operate a large number of ships, only 1 class of destroyer were of a native design (Grom) 2.1) Therefore implementing them as anything other than a premium nation is very difficult. 2.1.5) It wouldn't be very considerate from a ship diversity perspective when there more original designs from nations like Sweden & the Netherlands. 2.2) The best premium candidates are ORP Grom (original armament for the class), ORP Blyskawica (as refitted with the 4" guns), & ORP Wicher (a slight modification of the French Bourrasque class). ORP Gryff might work if WG consider a tier 1 premium. 2.2.5) The reason why the rest aren't really applicable is because their class were majoritively used by the Royal Navy, or used by other navies as well. All in all, Poland is likely to represented, just not for a while.

A game focussed around pre-Dreadnoughts does have a lot of potential, so it may exist at some point.

Thank you for these, and thank you very much for all the time you've given for the sake of this topic. And I hope your problems get sorted out favourably

So Agano works at tier 6. But can Kai-Agano work at tier 7? (Ships to reference against would be Southampton/Gloucester, Brooklyn & Abruzzi/Ciano)