RAHJAILARI

Hmm @Excavatus, maybe you have a point there.. I did sink a Yamato with my Mogami just recently without too much trouble (yeah, I rather cowardly stealthed and torped him for sailing in straight line while spotted and compounded my crime by setting him on fire afterwards, which killed the poor sap - Before making my despicable escape behind an island) and I am nowhere near unicum yet or ever -,We'll see about that tho, perhaps eventually.

Naah @Excavatus, Kagero is OK as it is dude... Akatsuki could use a little better concealment tho, there are tier 8 DD's with MUCH better concealment (mostly because they get the module and Aka does not) which makes it difficult to perform against them, but it is not a total disaster either way. My main concern is actually the bottom tier Cruiser, CV and BB performance, since they are the most favored gunfire targets after all. It makes no sense to me that a Conqueror, for example, can have almost the same concealment than a Hipper and ALSO basically stealth-fire. To simplify, since older ships are smaller and have inferior firepower, why not acknowledge the fact and afford them at the least the chance to try and dodge / maneuver against their betters and a little stealth would not hurt either (especially since they are often slower as well). The biggest and baddes are powerful enough for a reason and should likewise remain more visible. CV's then, well CV players should be commenting more on that part instead of myself, but it seems that low tier CV's cannot do much due to low plane survivability. What I proposed is just one option though.

Auto-bounce? That just doesn't sound right at all. BB should be able to pulverize anyone foolish enough to stray in close range, including each other. I do not see that as a problem as such, just thinking there should be SOME range and a tactic in which a Cruiser could exist while performing the tasks it should be doing (DD hunting, AA support and such) while limiting damage (not saying it should not happen, just a way to limit would be enough). Currently it seems that many Cruisers just basically skulk behind own BB's and snipe instead of venturing to mid-ranges to do their job. Of course, I could just be jealous, since I mostly play IJN Cruisers and their gun range is simply too short to be able to do any of that so i am forced to go mid-range anyway. Quite often with fatal results (especially on open maps). Mogami seems to be some kind of a super-conductive magnet to incoming enemy fire, as soon as I fire the first salvo (and sadly I am rarely the one firing first in our team for this very reason) everyone within range will drop everything else they might be doing and immediately focus all their fire on me. It is quite uncanny, I say. Or then I'm just mounting the annoying "whopping target" camo again, have to check on that.

Da*n Guys, this is indeed new and depressing, though I had suspected some such thingy for quite a while. I am currently practising how yo Mogami, so I guess I could try and give it a go sometime and see what happens, admittedly I'd prefer not to show the side in that thing at all you understand.

Woot?! @Negativvv so you mean, that when I turn and WASD to escape being citadelled, I might actually be facilitating them anyway? Damppit, there is no escape is there? But yeah, I have noticed something similar. I usually "get it" in Mogami especially right up the bottom, when I am already well turned away and presenting only a wiggly stern.

Hheh, yeah it still could happen tho. I recently accidentally went to play division with a Graf Spee instead of the intended Myoko... Somehow I was not even the last in team and managed to torp and sink a Tirpitz and a DD (forgot which one it was because smoke) before my demise so it was an OK game in fact. Though I admit playing a tad defensive at first.

Naah! @Miessa3 I clearly saw it hit just below the bridge (was quite sober at the time too) so it could not be a turret barbette either, but perhaps it was at such a high andle it went right through to the engine or something. Still.. At first I was like: "Phew, not as bad as I thought." and then: "Aww crap, it was much worse"... Anyway, Mogami IS famously highly vulnerable. Sith happens.

Yyeeeah... Perhaps you could be right there... I once got citadelled in Mogami, when I could have sworn the shell only hit the superstructure. Go figure.

Oh well yeah, that often happens when you play Cruiser... Any Cruiser. Many things have been proposed but I do not see how this could be "fixed" Cruisers are supposed to quite squishy after all. Though sometimes I think they might be a little bit too much so.

Tut tut @wilkatis_LV now you are just being unnecessarily mean and completely misinterpreting the entire post. I never said high tier should be worse, because it never will be. Giving up a slight advantage in stealth or agility (both of which are justifiable when comparing the actual ship sizes - It always made more sense to me that a larger ship would be spotted further away than a smaller one, that's all) while maintaining all the other perks (superior firepower, range, armor, speed, HP) hardly constitutes a fundamentally game-breaking change. Also, I do not think I have ever been a floating oneshot in any tier but yes, I do not play CV's - Maybe later. However many CV players keep mentioning this as an issue and I have played enough games in Mogami against a tier 6 CV to know they generally constitute no danger to me at any time and I do not think that should be the case especially, since Mogami's AA is quite bad for its tier.

True dat @Vaderan however it seems that we cannot get there despite frequent requests. So perhaps tweaking the game mechanics in this way would slightly "even up the playing field" so to speak and result in popularizing the game more instead of discouraging people to keep going. I think our chances of getting that +-1 matchmaking in the end would be vastly better, if we would have 100k players instead of just 30k but before that can happen we have to get there first. You know, just stubbornly demanding +-1 or a +-0 MM, not getting it and doing nothing else, is kinda unproductive after all.

Oh yeah, you're right I did forget that.. Perhaps the same fire resistance as well then? Thanks for reminding.

Oh Herr @ColonelPete. You misunderstand, i do not have huge problems personally (well, sometimes I do but generally speaking). But just check the many threads we have about MM and the latest about a self-destruct button (which is where I got this idea from) and you see what I mean. I also would not mind a bit improved chances to play aggressively even when bottom tier (other that just playing DD all the time). I do understand that an average player will have big issues, when bottom-tiered and this will generate resentment, if people feel that MM is somehow "unfair" all or much of the time. Also, more popular the game, the better our chances of getting that +-1 matchmaking so many times wished for. So providing players a little bit of something (an advantage, no matter how small) would probably make things more interesting, as being bottom-tier would not be so much viewed, as an automatic death-penalty but instead an an interesting challenge - Dont'cha think? of course, we could just go with the +-1 MM @RethyI and be done with it, but since that does not seem to be happening any time soon then perhaps there are other options too. And yeah, i do think this might make the gameplay more fun and engagingl.

Hhehe! A fun idea, mayhap they could make that explosion exceptionally spectacular too. BUT ALAS!! I can also see why they won't provide that button... because it would become an instant epidemic with everyone, who is bottom-tier blowing themselves up the moment team lineup is revealed. That would ge t pretty old rather quickly. Of course, the main problem is poor game design. Bottom-tiered ships in any battle are basically there just for HP-farming for the top tiers with no actual chance of impacting or performing well (try playing tier 8 cruiser or BB in tier 10 game, if unsure what I am talking about). A notable exeption to this rule are the DD, due to their stealth and torps, a tier 8 DD is still able to perform well even when uptiered, which is not the case with any other ship class. Of course, as usual this is due to poor game design. No provisions have been made which would provide bottom-tier ships any kind of a niche in any game with which they could perform. They have no advantage in HP, stealth, in fire.chance, armor, agility, range or speed. So basically all one can expect is to get a paddling with no hope of a reprieve almost regardless of the player performance (unicums and supers exempted here). Of course, it does not have to be this way, the game could provide some reprieve for bottom-tier ships, which would enable even an average player to get some positive result, even when bottom-tier. For example, as follows: 1) Game could be designed so that bottom-tier ships (being obviously less powerful and therefore also physically smaller) would always have better base-concealment values, that their higher-tier cousins (yes always - all ship classes). This would at the least allow them the theoretical advantage of firing the first salvo (make it count though, as after that you might still be dead fairly quickly). I know, it's not much but it is SOMETHING to go by at the least. 2) The base fire chance should be the same for all ships (currently this % very strongly favors the higher tier ships). 3) The "Bloom effect" should be set to be at minimum the same as the main battery reload time and the Concealment System Modification upgrade should be made unavailable for all battleships (yea, I know that BB players will hate this, but the concept of a "stealth BB" makes no sense whatsoever). This would also, give Cruisers a little something to survive by, as opposed to being immediately insta-killed by a horde of BB's in every high tier game. 4) Make the smaller tier planes (them being smaller, you know) harder to hit with heavy AA guns. So only close range light AA would be fully effective against them. This should give CV's some chance to get results, even when playing bottom-tier methinks. This rule could be applied, as follows: top tier CV -> all AA is fully effective, mid-tier (tier 9 in a game with tier 8-10 ships) CV -> close and mid-range AA is fully effective and finally bottom-tier CV -> only close range AA is fully effective. The reduction in heavy and mid-range AA effectiveness could be somewhere in the range of 25% to 50% for example (this would have to be play-tested to see where iot balances out, if course). These changes might improve gameplay overall and also offer even the bottom-tier players some hope to get a result out of the game.

Heh, that might actually explain why I always seem to have much more damage done = better result in a lost game, when playing with Mogami, than I do when we actually won. I have found that rather baffling at times.

I got 100 Sierra Mike and 100 India X-Ray flags, so quite all righty then...

Hheeey! Who you callin' a Termite? Hhhehehe! Funny thread guys... Keep on going! Somehow this thread reminded me of a thing I noticed yesterday, when checking my achievements (trying to get the blasted High caliber for the campaign so I was looking for tips on what ship to take). Annyway I noticed something rather absurd... My latest "Die Hard" (ramming without dying) award was achieved with a Wakatake??? WTF really? I wish I had a replay on that, it should be priceless...

Yeah, also the reverse holds true. I have a 5 year old crap PC, but I am generally on the map 20 seconds before any of my division "playmates" (no, sadly not the attractive kind) who actually have gaming computers.

True dat... 1,8 km for Shimatorps to be precise. But it is still possible to get hits, luckily we still have plenty of chimps out there. Though that said. I, in principle I tend to agree with you on this one. I would like to see the DD's redone in such a way that the sk. IJN !"Gunboats" would actually be better gunboats than their Tropedo-boat cousins and vice-versa. As it is now, well Shiratsuy rather absurdly is a way better torpedo boat that Akatsuki and bafflingly Akatsuki is also a better gunboat that Shiratsuy. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Also while Fubuki is clearly a better Torpedo boat that Hatsu, they are actually just about equal in terms of guns. it would seem to me that generally speaking Torp boats should be weaker on gun power, but better on stealth and agility (Akatsuki), while the gunboats could be faster (Shira & Aki) with markedly better guns to fulfill their intended role. At this point this is all kinda jumbled up and neither DD line does not stay true to its intended "character". And perhaps the dedicated torp boats, while initially slower than gunboats, could have an improved engine boost consumable, like the French, which would give them significantly improved speed for a short period of time, since they are basically defenseless against the gunboats, so to give them a chance to at least try and run away. Ever tried to get away from a Leningrad in a Fubuki anyone? Oh yeah, a good torpedo tip: Anticipate the enemy taking evasive action and do not solely rely on the torp lead indicator when firing them. So, if you have 3 torp launchers, just aim the first one according to the lead indicator and the rest taking into account that the enemy will turn and you will score some hits for sure.

Well; I once had a string of 17 battles with an 80% winrate although I myself played like a drooling autistic drunken Baboon on dope and to say even that is a gross and demeaning insult to all the drooling autistic drunken baboons on dope out there. So yeah, luck definitely has an effect on it, but ONLY IN SHORT TERM! However, as statistics generally work, in the long haul (over several thousands of battles) this tends to even out and so today I do find myself having the winrate I most likely deserve. Working hard to eliminate / restrict my wild streak of inherent potato instincts to improve it tho. But my most important finding is that for best result this is definitely a game you don't want to be playing when tired, unable to concentrate, drunk, on drugs or all of the above (not that I ever). Hhehehe!

I suspect that at some point the IJN Design A-150 might have a chance of becoming a tier 10 prem... Not getting it tho. Paper ship.

... Ahh, @ForlornSailor, my friend - You dare to disturb my X-Mas slumber? Ah well, I have no choice but to respond in kind and present the replay from a fiend's point-of-view: https://replayswows.com/replay/13430#stats While @DFens_666 is no doubt a highly skilled CV player, I do feel that our Hakuryu @Propper1981 contributed more to victory in this game. We do have to remember that a CV is by far the most powerful unit in the game (sorry, esteemed Yamato fans, but you are soooo wrong), so whenever a CV is in the game the team either conquers or falls with it. In this case, too many of their their team went to A (which is a major mistake to begin with, as they get isolated and will be unable to support their team mates at B or C), in this game the CV concentrated much of his planes in supporting that push and ignored both C and B entirely, presumably to concentrate on damage farming, which was good for his personal stats but this was done at the expense of overall tactical necessity. Therefore, due to lack of air support, C was lost to our team outright, we managed to take it fairly quickly and proceed to B, which was weak, since there were only myself (with a bottom-tier Mogami) and a Shima there, with an enemy Benson we were temporarily unable to spot (and afraid to go too close for fear of being spotted and shot to pieces ourselves). However, while Midway was still delaying and chasing our ships at A, our CV sent planes to B to spot the pesky Benson and by chance also spotting a Shima, which was trying to advance there - They both got destroyed and it was pretty much all downhill from there. In this map, A is a trap (yes, you can try cap it but not in force - 1 or 2 fast ships with good concealment, which can cap if no-one there and also escape, if too many is quite enough. While the others overwhelm B and C, which can be mutually supported, while A cannot). Because of the location of the islands between A and B. Whoever goes to A will be isolated for quite a while (with limited exit routes, which funnel them into a shooting alley when trying to exit to B) so they cannot support anyone, nor can they be supported by anyone else. So the larger part of the team goes there the bigger the risk of losing the game outright. A CV player must recognize these tactical priorities and allocate the air support accordingly. If one just goes after individual juicy targets to rack up the damage count, one can still lose the game, because the impact will only be localized and the remaining 2/3 of the battlefield will remain unaffected and therefore dominated by the enemy. In this case, some support should have been sent to C, to assist their team in better contesting it. They probably would still have lost, but could have lasted long enough to allow the guys from A to come to B and assist. Someone should have at least spotted B. We were not at all bothered by enemy planes during the entire match there. Mogami AA is bad, so it is no contest for an air strike from Midway, neither is Shima and should we be spotted the passing enemy BB could have easily finished us off (which is why I avoided firing, as long as I remained un-spotted). A blooper. Once we at B were thus ignominiously knocked off, the Benson there could have easily capped it and continued to assist their team at C or to harass our CV, which was not far away at the time - AND their team would have held 2 caps instead of just 1.

Fair enough, had 1,6m saved for this so no worries...

We all hoping for that line dude... They had some excellent and interesting ships in RM.

Ahh, @DFens_666, my friend, but that is only because this situation is not just the result of a single error in game design (concealment blunder), but a general failure of simplistic linear thinking resulting in multiple failures complimenting each other towards a general failure. You see, they have made also another error in their misdesign of the game. This is due to the range and accuracy on guns which keeps cumulatively improving in strides (and why shouldn't it?). Camping is the logical consequence of this progression. Of course, why would you go nearer than 20km, if you can perfectly well hit the target from 20 km away (and one-shot kill any Cruiser unfortunate enough to be spotted at the time)? That would make no sense whatsoever. So therefore, while increases in gun range are fine and should be expected as tiers increase. It seems to me that gun accuracy increases should be reigned in somewhat, just to make sure that if you want to be sure to get more lethal hits, you also have to get closer - Even in higher tiers... One does not need a rocket scientist to figure that one out. They overdid the accuracy bit and camping is the direct result of it. Of course, also many of the high tier maps are built with open large spaces and lacking concealment (no doubt to give free reign to the increased gun ranges), so this amplifies the malady.