Exocet6951

I'm fine with different. I'm fine with ships that don't click with me. I'm not fine with years of tweaking in random and often opposite directions until you get a gameplay that's the opposite of its original design. I would be equally displeased if they progressively changed the Shima into a gunboat at the expense of torpedoes by accident. I'm fine with the Hinden being a long HE spammer, but in that case it has to be reworked in order to be more effective at it while removing some of its short range oomph. It can't be a jack of all trades, master of some. Especially not if it's done by accident.

It would be fine... According to you. It has not been fine for me in years. You can't just tweak a ship to the point of completely changing the way it's played and hope for it to work out. Applying more bandaids to the situation won't solve a damn thing. It will just postpone the problem until the next tanky cruiser comes along and renders the Hinden's current role redundant. Rework it completely. Giving it 10s reload won't change a damn thing for it.

And what about all the other dreads and super dreads with submerged torpedo tubes?

Or, and bear with me here, perhaps YEARS of applying bandaid fixes to that branch, bringing it to a gameplay that's the polar opposite of what it was designed for originally and conceptually is finally showing all its cracks? I mean, bear in mind that the Hinden was made to have weak HE but very strong AP alpha, tanking and brawling with hydro+torpedoes+turtleback. It's now one of the most long range, passive HE spamming ships in the game in random battles. Quite the 180 degree turn. Nerfing and buffing won't do a damn thing. Rework the entire branch, top to bottom.

There could only be a wet paper towel in front of BBs and they would claim that it's making it impossible to play aggressively.

I don't even know what to start mocking first. You topic, or the fact that the thread title is so damn long that it could be it's own ridiculous whine thread.

Thickness should be in centimeters, and the range is in yards, because while they were so busy seeing if they could, they didn't stop to think if they should

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_Britain.php Here's for the British 8" And you can compare with the Japanese 8" http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_Japan.php I compared both using British cemented armor at the effective limit (EFF column). The British 8" is a bit worse in terms of penetration, although it's to be expected since the Brits used SAPC shells with 5kg bursting charges while the Japanese used APC shells with only 3kg bursting charge. A more fair comparison would have been with the French 8" and its similar "HE and SAP" selection of shells, but unfortunately that resource is not available.

So when you're done deflecting, when are you going to address the fact that according to YOUR own words, it's not fun and it's unbalanced to play against something you literally cannot fire back at.....except when it's battleships outranging cruisers by 25-30% and DDs by 100% ? If you start listing things like "Oh but they can be attacked by HE, torpedoes and other battleships", WHY OH WHY are CVs immune to the very same argument? Do AA guns and fighters not exist? I don't think you realize just how deep into the massive double standard idiocy you are right now. Here's a fun thought, if I can replace the subject of your vague, non-specific rant by another and you're fundamentally opposed to what I'm saying, then your argument was crap from the start.

You mean like the tier 5 Kongo and its 21km range? What was that again? Hey, for additional lulz, let me highlight something as well: So cruisers being blapped by BBs is totally ok since they can't do whatever they want. But BBs getting blapped because they're can't do whatever they want merits deleting an entire class from the game. The amount of self-awareness you seem to be lacking is downright comical.

Emerald with Type 93 20km torpedoes and 20km main gun range confirmed?

See that's why I've been having my point of view on large cruisers. I don't have an issue with them fundamentally, but their implementation as cruisers implies coming up with ridiculous solutions to nigh-impossible to solve problems. I truly think that it would have been a much more better ship for the game had it been a battleship with tankier plating, ability to heal citpens, and those USN AP shells. Of course we'll never know if it could have worked, and perhaps I've been wrong all this time.... But I LOATHE seeing non-DD ships with no reliable citadels. It laughs at the entire fundamental way AP shells and their damage were designed.

Funny, I could swear that the poor bastard in an Emerald I one shot in a Fuso last night didn't have 20km range.

Everyone has their heads stuck so far up their own [edited]that they can only care about what interests them directly?

Oh weekends The gift that keeps on giving.

It's still not nothing. I'm able to shoot down 2-3 planes with a quarter of that with a Z-52. Seriously, we've gone from "300 dps at 3.5km and 150dps at 5km makes the Montanta an AA MONSTER" to "500dps at 3.5km and 70dps at 5km is barely anything" in less than 2 years !! There are ships that make the DM's AA look tame in comparison. This sort of "Conqueror barely has any AA" is incredibly damaging to the game, because it forces the devs to absolutely minmax the hell out of everything just to have branches that are halfway attractive to the ever more demanding playerbase.

Absolutely not. You can blame WG for introducing a branch of BBs which suggested players to use devastatingly powerful HE shells on all BBs. HE shells that can wipe out 20 mounts per salvo. close to 600 dps at 3.5km is barely any AA. Well ok then. That's how we get insane AA powercreep pseudo "balanced" by idiotically powerful HE shell splash, making targets be either free kills or unapproachable AA bastions of doom.

It's two thirds of your AA, ist of which was the high damage ones in from of bofors leaving mostly your meh long range dpaa.

If you think CVs' strike potential is going to go down...oh boy....you're in for a surprise :'D

Did you play pre nerf Alsace? It was a ****ing beast. Average damage on par with T10 BBs. Bourgogne is a ship with basically the same MM, but more accurate with effectively double the reload rate whenever you need it the most. Yeah.... Pre buff Alsace was good, souped up Alsace with 24.5s reload without AR from JJ Honore kicking in will be significantly better. Overmatch be damned, when you pop up 12.5km from a target and you slam twice 12x380mm shells into an unsuspecting target within 12 seconds OR LESS....Overmatch doesn't really matter. With the speed and concealment, you can very well dictact the engagement, meaning you don't always have to worry about overmatching 27mm bows. It worked stupendously well for the Alsace, it's going to work even better for something more accurate with faster reload.

That awkward moment when you realize that the type 59 hasn't been relevant in over 5 years, but people still hold it to mythical levels.

Jesus christ if I even get in triple post self-victimizing cryfest mode like that, just ban me. "Yeah, shooting teammates is not ok, but perhaps you're not really helping your case by going alone and taking 20 seconds?" "omfg let me triple/quad post about how I'm being bullied and you all support TK, despite me literally writing down on a public forum that I ram into allies for the sole purpose of making them turn pink" I can't even... Just....

... The damn thing is written ON YOUR AIMING RETICLE. God, why do you always have to be a contrarian?

He's part of the other 50% that's barely literate, but doesn't care about reading! Stop trying to poke holes in my put down of 75% of this game's player base!

It would even be comprehensible if it were just a tooltip... But there's a large text ON SCREEN telling the player that DW torpedoes can't hit the target. I'm absolutely convinced that a good 25% of players in this game are downright illiterate.