Thonar

You mean the same Rodney that was unable to penetrate vital areas of the ship? You mean the same Rodney that was unable to penetrate the "citadel"? €: You mean the same Rodney, that was unable to penetrate vital parts of the Bismarck with its massive Torpedos?

Both are ingame, see the German part of the forum, there are pictures (one of the last sites).

NOW YOU OW ME A MINUTE OF MY LIFE!

Das einzige Problem mit Feuer ist: Es stackt nicht nur, sondern es bekommt auch einen Reset... anstatt verschiedene Feuer unterschiedliche Timer haben...

Vanhal: Correct, the module is usually given on T9 and T10. I would like to see this module for the German tech tree already on T8, maybe even sooner (T6?) And before someone calls me a Wehraboo: The US-Techtree gets the +Range-Upgrade also earlier than the Japanese, so I don't see a problem in such an approach.

Damage Potential: Bismarck: 8 (guns) x 3 (rpm) x 11000 = 264.000 But only with module and the real dpm is actually lower (due to the 3 for simpler math) Amagi (out of my head): 10 x 2 x 14000 = 280.000 Without module and the real dpm might even be higher due to higher rpm.

Wargame uses usually historical stats to "fill its formular". We already had the discussion in the Bismarck-Topic on length: Ingame RoF = (([Highest RoF on Highest Gun Elevation] + [Highest RoF on lowest Gun Elevation]) / 2) +/- a bit Balance This pretty much fits to every BB. Thus I use the rL-Stats. @Battlecruiser/ Bismarck Balance: During WWII Battlecruiser were obsolete and replaced by "fast Battleships". KGV will also do its 28kn. To this comes the low damage potential of the 38cm, while penetration is comparable to the 406mm guns.

Your comparison is flawed. Rudder-Shift-Time for Amagi is around 20s with Upgrades, while you use at speed the upgraded Amagi 30kn.

Scharnhorst-Class: 3.5rpm http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_11-545_skc34.htm Probably gun upgrade for Scharnhorst-Class to 38cm: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-52_skc34.htm (the same as on Bismarck-Class) Lützow-Class: 2.5rpm http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_11-52_skc28.htm (there is said that the middle gun of each turret could be loaded no matter in what elevation it was, but I haven't found any confirmation for this statement, but it would "buff" the RoF in theory a bit higher, so far it is of no concern). €: With Modul 3 I meant the better RoF but worse Turret-Traverse-Update

1. The maneuverability is actually tuned down (for Balance reasons which is fine) 2. Tirpitz is premium, thus the tubes might be an exception 3. It is still a test 4. I don't think, as stated, that the tubes are a big deal.

I think it isn't visible during "Auto-Evasion", not sure tough, since I disabled it since CBT^^.

Regarding Bismarck: Absolutely: 26s is fine, but the Option with the Modul 3 would be good choice IMO Regarding Scharnhorst: 20-22s is rather slow... I expect it more around 18s (without any mods speeding it up), especially on T7 with 280mm See it this way: The Pocket-Battleships (as Cruiser) will have pretty slow RoF (24s) thus you have a kind of "balance". @Maou: Wasn't only said "No submerged torpedo-tubes"?

Not true. During Denmark-Strait: 1:21min - 1st Salvo 1:43min - 2nd Salvo Fwd Turrets (22s) 1:45min - 2nd Salvo Aft Turrets (24s) €: Still: 26s unmodded is fine... but I hope that they have access for the modul, as stated earlier.

I doubt that Bismarck gets Torpedos. AFAIK the launchers on Tirpitz were an exception not a rule, but I may be wrong here. I think Bismarck will get the typical +10% range, more AA and better maneuverability instead.

Yes, but this was cleared afterwards and I instantly said the discussion is over with it due to exactly this fact...

Like the Warspite? Not really. The turret traverse is far faster (not nearly double?). The RoF is ok... it was discussed on length here. 26s is the average RoF between highest RoF on lowest gun elevation and the highest RoF on the highest gun elevation. But I actually hope that the Bismarck/ Tirpitz has access to Gun-Modul 3(? slower turret traverse/ higher RoF). €: @Keulz: I said "it would be nice", not "it must be done" or "it is needed". Eitherway, it is okay as it is, since Tirpitz isn't the premium. €2: Do to the hull Points: Do you guys think this is the Stock-Bismarck or the fully upgraded one? Or a step inbetween?

Haven't said it wouldn't fit the role. But an old ship would have fit the role too... I never asked for a buff except in your Imagination. I just asked why a difference is there...

Just to clarify: The Kolonialkanonenboot was not intended for German colonies, it isn't even a German design, but a Dutch one just taken over by Germany (and simply translated). Several People aren't really happy with this choice, due to the time-line... and enough possible alternatives within timeframe which were actually built and used.

For range you got your Main-Artillery. The torps are only a Supplement to force a cruiser or DD to turn away from you... or a BB that is surprisingly Close to turn away from you to hit him with your main guns. Thus these "weak" torps are fine maybe even OP, even when I believe that the maneuverabilty is the biggest problem with them. €: @Vanhal: Because Tirpitz seems to be the Premium (IMO unfortunately), the discussion is worthless from my point of view (because I expected it the other way around).

Yeah, unfounded accusations, love it! Now call me a Wehraboo, leave the topic and stop trolling please. I just mentioned that the difference premium/ ship of the line could be bigger.

Not sure. When Tirpitz is the ship of the line (as I strongly believe) than the Torpedos are nice, but not necessarily a help. 1. The poor maneuverability (which I could start arguing about here ) makes the useage of the Torpedos pretty hard. 2. To use the torpedos you will need to show your vulnerable side... which could be a death-sentence 3. The ability to use the Torpedos to "guide" your Opponent is thus hindered by the maneuverability of the ship.- Thus Bismarcks seems to be the better Brawler, despite weaker AA. But maybe there will be a hull-uprage for Tirpitz increasing the range to 5km... would be nice. Yep,... or like this.

Probably due to the fact that it is "Alpha Damage" and thus reduced massively by armor probably.

H39 and H41. (practically "supersized" Bismarck/ Tirpitz)

Thus I wonder why Tirpitz secondaries have "only" 4.5km range while Bismarcks have 5km... €:@Takeda: They were Torplaunchers on deck, not submerged.

Thank you very much.