m4inbrain

Confirming, yesterday i scored citadelhits basically as soon as i opened fire. Yeah, bit of exaggerating, but it is/seems so much easier to score a citadel now compared to before. The only thing that mightve happened is that i played for so long HE only on CAs, that i dont realize how much my aim improved, being the reason that now that i use AP again, i score so much more citadels. That doesnt explain why it feels that my BB citadels got up though, since i use AP on them 80% of the time even before the patch. Another thing that happenwd right after patch, which never happened to me before: i took out the enemies rudder with an AP hit of my New York.

Yeah, whatever the reason - the distance, whatever it might be, is way too close, that's what i'm trying to say. And yes, fire is more dangerous-ish if you can get it to stack to three (i think that's the threshold for it to do more damage than flooding). But that's just a vacuum, in reality, CAs from all across the map pepper you with HEs, so you will burn anyway. Which got better, admittedly - wasn't burning as much today (well, yesterday by now) as usually. Still, my point stands: CVs at the moment are too strong against BBs. The pre 3.2 buff to turning circles etc was dumb because it wasn't just a direct nerf to CVs, but more importantly, to DDs which already had a hard time on 3.0 turning circles - you somehow would need to get things a bit easier for DDs, and at the same time, harder for CVs. Because with current measures, and i start to see a pattern there from WG (not thinking while patching) - DDs and CVs are completely linked with the way they balance. So far, when they nerfed CVs by a turning radius buff for BBs, DDs suffered. Now that this got reverted, they buffed CVs as well with that. Not sure if i can get my point across, i'm really tired. I'd like to see balancing specifically to TBs, and not to other ships against torpedos in general.

Yeah i can see it if you explain it, point taken. It sounded like "i want a magic AA aura that doesn't take firing arcs etc into consideration". Fair enough. I said earlier already, revert the IJN torpspread nerf, i agree with that. It's just stupid that basically you can't miss with TBs if done right, whereas you certainly can with DDs even IF done right simply because you have to fire them at 4+km or die trying to get closer - where TBs simply fly 300m (their current arming distance) up to your side and drop. Yes they do less damage than DD ones - but they're also at least(!) one or two close to guaranteed hits. Which can be devastating thanks to flooding mechanics and quite long repairtimers. You can't leave a flooding as is, you have to repair it immediately (compared with fire, which i repair at three or two if i can kill/shake the person who lit me) - flooding takes out "R" immediately since it not only does do quite considerable damage, it also slows you down by quite a margin, making you an easier target for anything else. As i said, i don't mind getting torped by someone who outsmarted me, but it's way too easy for TBs compared to DDs. Which take MUCH more risks including certain death if coming too close, for MUCH less outcome. That's simply bad balance to me.

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/13878-basics-aa-mechanics/ That's basics of aa mechanics. You're welcome. Btw, the only thing the "targeting a specific airsquad" does is doing 1,5x damage to it in those auras. The turning radius nerf is pretty much a non-nerf to carriers, since it basically at the same time it is a buff for them as well. It basically depends now on who's finding who earlier. edit: that being said, as i said, i'm fine with the turning circles and ruddershift time as is. I would've liked to see a more sensible approach, but as i said: it still okay-ish. I am not okay with the arming distance of TB torpedos though.

If you scale everything down as suggested (ship scales also include speed, which would scale down accordingly, as would the size of TBs and their torps, the only thing that changes is that the map gets bigger. If my ship scales down by 1/3 (just arbitrary numbers now), if you don't change the turning radius also by 1/3, nothing changes because speed goes down by 1/3 as well - for my ship as well as for torpedos. And no, i don't expect to dodge a DD torpedo if he does it correctly. That's why, if i know there's one close, "pre-swerve" in basically all my ships apart from DDs to throw the aim off. What i do expect is that BBs get a realistic chance against TBs. And at the moment, it's simply not given. Even IF i turn into incoming torpbombers, they'll just adjust to 90 degrees. There's no practical way to dodge a TB squad if the CV captain is remotely capable. Especially not if you're already in a firefight with another BB (which gets the choice down to either die from torps, or try to doge the torps and exposing citadel). Of course you can dodge auto-aimed torps, but a decent 300m drop 90 degrees to my side (and even i can do that, mind), you'll get either immediately deleted, or so heavily crippled that the next two BB salvos eat the rest. That's easily fixable though, revert the spread nerf on IJN CVs, but give TB torps an arming distance of 600m or even more, considering that DDs can't get even remotely into that range (3km maximum, otherwise you're 100% dead to secondaries alone) and still manage to score hits. 600m being an arbitrary number. That's an observation, not an insult. Want me to pull screenshots of the games i had today? BBs got nerfed and they still complained if somebody dodged torpedos. Obviously "who would've thought", because i wouldn't have thought after that drastic of a nerf. And just as a small sidenote, AAs don't have a firing arc. Just saying. It's exactly as you described, magical auras around the ship. Three of them in fact. And planes take constant damage in them. That shooting stuff is just an animation, planes take damage even if your guns are not firing (no shells flying around - not talking about being deactivated).

I'd like you to quote that sentence.

I'm trying to. This time it wasn't me getting riled up like a girl, like when we were arguing.

What? You do realise how scale works, right? Please explain to me where the difference is between increasing the turning radius, or scaling the ship down to fit the current one? Let me help you, since it's obviously not clear. It's exactly(!) the same. Now what happens if you, let's say, double or rather triple (to be realistic-ish) the turning radius of current ships? Let me help you again: it will go straight or in a very shallow angle for much longer. It HAS to, i don't understand how that's not obvious. PS: i don't think you know what a crusade is. I criticised that the strongest class ingame got even stronger, yes. And i countered your point of suggesting to make them even MORE so. If you can't deal with opposing opinions, maybe a forum is not the right place for you. edit: after your edit, which made your posting somewhat more readable - i'm not sure if you're trying to say that the turning radius would also scale down, which would make even less sense because the ship then STILL would turn at half its length?

Oh, i love my New York, sad that it's gone. Had some amazing games in it (not in a zomg damage way, but nailbiters). Only one game in the New Mexico, even stock with what, not even 15km range, i already love the triplets. That's my point, if the boats after Fuso and the NM are worse and less fun, while being a longer grind.. I dunno. :/

Would someone with "some sense" also suggest to nerf it even further? I suppose not. Hint: with current TB mechanics, or torpedo mechanics in general, it would be literally (and not the exaggerating literally, but actually literally) impossible to dodge any incoming torpedo. Is that "sense" to you? If my ship goes in a straight line for more than two shiplengths (which is what you're suggesting), a TB attack is a guaranteed hit. Otherwise, feel free to quote me where i said that the turnrate before patch was okay, because obviously you felt the need to tell me that it was ridiculous, countering an argument that i didn't make. In fact, i said, the turning circles at the moment are "okay-ish". A nerf was needed, but not this heavy handed.

Just got my New Mexico today, .. Nice perspective i have now. Maybe i'll stick to Fuso and New Mexico until open beta hits, they're fun - whereas apparently the ships right after are turds. -.-

Bit of both actually. I don't understand the hate this ship gets, it's quite lovely - gonna miss it. Suited my playstyle, which is a bit more on the defensive side in a BB.

Got alot more citadelhits scored today as well. Not on extreme ranges, but mid to close range is basically impossible now to not citadel someone. Plunging fire (extreme ranges) still is as random as it gets. Got everything from zero damage per salvo to 4k per salvo to 10k per salvo.

While i agree that the nerf was quite harsh (still seen plenty of CV players complaining, who would've thought), at least New York and New Mexico still turn, well.. "decent-ish" (with -20% rudder shift time module). Not enough to avoid full spreads, but at least some torps - especially DD based. On the other hand, citadelling got out of hand. I played today: Furutaka, New York, New Mexico and Cleveland - no game under 4-5 citadel hits. I actually killed an Aoba (same tier as my Cleveland for the lesser knowledgable) in three salvos. Three. Salvos. Of a Cleveland. And deleted a Wyoming in my New Mexico (onehit). While i thoroughly enjoy that, how much you wanna bet that the AP buff gets reverted while the ruddershift time stays?

I thoroughly enjoyed the Minekaze, even i as a baddie managed to get the same average damage (50k) as on my fuso. I think that warrants a thumbs up for the Ninjakaze.

That's my point. The cap timer gets negated if the last survivor is a CV. Every other class has to come close-ish to be able to reset the cap, or block the cap - giving you a fighting chance. Apart from a CV, who prevents you from capping by leftclicking your ship, while staying out of range. As soon as there is a map with one or more caps, one CV and anything apart from another CV alive on the other team, this game will either end in a draw or a win for the CV. NEVER in a win for the other ship. And that's simply not fair, no.

If i could i would give +1, although it could've been worded at least a bit nicer. Not saying you're insulting, but nice is different. ;) Apart from that, Wakatake, isn't that tier 3? I don't think he realises that the detection range on higher tier DDs (i'm at tier 6, and already having trouble - and it gets worse from there) is alot higher, meaning that in my mutsuki i can either drop a torp that needs what, 20-30 seconds to hit a target (and they won't, apart from zombies - there's simply no players at all that don't move their rudder for 30 seconds), or i'll get into closer range where torps are a bit more effective, but also get spotted at 7km distance already. Which is, against a CA (especially USN thanks to extreme turret-turn speed), pretty much certain death and even against BBs far from a guaranteed torpedohit.

Well. Would you say the same if the last remaining ship is a CV at the other end of the map, simply divebombing you in the cap to reset it until draw?

Afaik there's no wipe after WoWs goes into OBT. There will be a hard wipe when it enters OBT, but that's about it i think. You will get gold etc reimbursed after it entered OBT (hard wipe), but not from OBT to release since there won't be a wipe.

You don't need to run away from the DD, just the torps that come once, maybe twice a minute. And that's pretty easy, especially if you don't go in a straight line, rendering the torp-lead indicator completely useless.

If a DD can hit you by simply following the path marker, it's 100% your fault. Sorry.

Patch is live on US servers, it's a nerf.

That's actually not true. It depends on who is doing it. You can screw your team majorly with smoke as well, namely if you smoke and you DON'T have a spotter above the enemy team - while they have a spotter over yours.

Apart from the really obvious fact that it's kinda hard to hide from fire behind islands etc. Once you burn, you burn, with up to 1,5k damage and more per tick - even if you break LoS.

And you couldn't find a bigger picture to show that? ^^ -.-