Shaka_D

Wolfpack of 3 subs?

When considering the future, I'm looking forward to buying my first premium sub.....does this make me a bad person? Also wish I could see the look on the face of a sub-hater who eventually gets a ship in an SC , and it's a sub. Yes I know, I shouldn't joke about such things, but damn this topic is hot!

BB mains will no doubt have muchos orgasmo over this!

Popcorn, chewing gum, peanuts and bubblegum, ice cream, candifloss and eskimo pie!

If it's as high as that, or even far far far less than that then there are no words for the stupidity of people...but the scary thing is, there are people who will pay this, and not just a few. Human beings, as much as we'd like to believe we are, are not all equal.

Money is obviously first and foremost on their agenda, especially when they become more corporate and lose that 'small developer' community-oriented personality they all begin with. Anything they implement nowadays, especially if as contentious as subs, is only going to be greeted with huge resistance because the trust relationship between WG and many players has been severely eroded. So nothing they say, whether sincere or not, will be readily accepted because they've betrayed that trust on numerous occasions in the past.

To be honest, I thInk most depth charges are dropped at random when the game begins or because a player feels like it, and not when actually chasing a sub. I do this for gits and shiggles. If WG are simply looking at numbers of DC's dropped, then the measurement would not reflect their use in the correct situation and be grossly inflated. On another note, can you imagine the potential for premium subs...a whole new revenue stream for WG. Given this, we may as well accept they're here to stay. Resisitance in this regard may well be futile, though could well at least force changes that might make you happier, so don't give up. I personally wouldn't mind, as long as it's relatively balanced - which in itself is massively contentious because what constitutes good balance?

Thanks, that's some great feedback. I use the reference of 'tweaking' to simply mean I don't wholeheartedly agree with cv's (or subs) in their current state and feel changes are still needed, though as mentioned still feel they belong in the game. They are fun to play though (personally that is). Unlike some others, your post above makes it more clear and defines your key issues - but you've at least conceded that cvs and subs have a place in the game.... just not as they are now. I largely feel the same, but obviously don't feel all the things you list are particularly bad. In particular, your point on the ASW launch by BB's being more effective than depth charges by dd's is extremely valid. Maybe subs can ping and launch from too far currently, and need to get amongst the enemy fleet to be effective? Maybe dud menchanics need to be introduced and the risk thereof being far higher the further away you launch torps? The waters are very muddied on this one., though I expect that if people have accepted cv's and their relatively low numbers in battle, would it not be possible subs undergo the same acceptance and limitation?

You've got a point here, but the irony is that many people love cv players on their own team when they seal that win in a game..or when they help them against an enemy ship...this is based on my own experience of course ,seeing it in more than numerous battles and even lately in ranked when sub players have been congratulated for helping someone out of a bad situation or subs saying thank you to others and it being acknowledged. So is it we only hate those subs and cv's that target us, but not when they're on our team and not when we ourselves play them? There is a more than dedicated resistance to change going on here me thinks. Food for thought.

Doesn't really help any point made, Euro. People hate subs, we all get it. At great risk of having a lot of people hate on me some more, I personally like having them in the game. We all need to learn to tolerate differences in opinion. I still think they need lots of tweaking, as do cv's, but the resistance in this forum is often unjustified and highly anecdotal. A few examples of highly contestable additions to the game - which in my opinion at the time only served to ruin gameplay - was radar, rpf and the overpowered indefensible nature of cv's in the pre-rework state (though not fond of the current workings either) ...I loved playing dd's and these mechanics /aspects changed the game for me in a massive way. I've since come to learn different approaches to playing my ships and to play other classes more. The point is, what can we do about any of it other than to adapt or die trying, or to make good on our threats and leave the game? A question I now have is, how many of these contentious mechanics and additions are really that harmful to gameplay if WG got the balance right? But to get the balance right, they have to be implemented because noone wants to play test servers forever when the live game is more rewarding? The point still remains that a lot of opinions here are just that, opinions, based on our own preferences within the game. Mine is I like the added variety afforded by subs, though they need more fixing, but i feel the exact same way about classes that other people here (who hates subs) enjoy playing. Just preference is all. There are some things that need looking at, but I cannot see that we need to negate an entire class just because it suffers similar, now accepted, previously contentious drawbacks offered by other classes. I think this is all more about a more general mistrust in WG and their intentions. They have fallen from favour by a long way and players in the forum are naturally peeved off with them.

You have literally just described what I always thought was associated with people who favour predominantly playing BB's...particularly the parts I bolded above. See where the subjectivity comes in? We all have favourite classes, but none of us like anything that is a threat to our favourite class....for me in a dd it's cv's and radar ships, whereas for a bb player its subs and dd's...if you're a rock, you don't like paper, if you're scissors you don't like the rock....all perfectly reasonable.

You realise this can be said of all ship classes? Simply because many people might have a preference for playing only certain classes more than others It's all purely subjective is it not?

That sounds a lot better than my own ideas about it..

Yeh, it would be nice if events like this catered for a wider audience, not just just those with hundreds of millions of credits and who don't have those few ships. Something new would be tempting for us veteran seadogs.

No, but they can have minimum xp thresholds and since the last person / couple of people on the winning team performed the worst, if they don't exceed the minimum threshold they should not be awarded a star. Although, a dd can spot for his team, smoke for them and fulfill a vital role while being rewarded hardly any xp for it, so this rule might conversely be flawed too. All I know is - the current system is not truly equitable in terms of effort put in and rewards given. Maybe a solution is to simply award the top half of players across both teams with stars, this takes away the wincentricity of a mode flawed by design and puts more emphasis on individual effort rather than people being punished needlessly by a system that only recognises that one person on the losing team gets to keep his star, even if a couple others have played just as well and better than people on the losing team. Just an idea.

There's a massive witch hunt going on where nothing WG does is seen as positive, but no debate is ever seen as reasonable when people throw their proverbial toys out the cot and abandon all sense of reason. Threats are pointless and the only thing that will work is action, i.e. leaving the game or financial boycotts by a substantial number of players...but will this happen? No, because many of those same complainers abandon their quests the second something they do like comes along. The irony is that a sure fire way to lose an argument is by being irrational. There are numerous things I disagree with which WG have done, and I similarly feel the huge frustration at having no agency to force changes in the direction we want the game to go. Of course it's upsetting. But truthfully, the easiest thing to do is to come to terms with the fact we have little agency in all this and either accept it and find our peace, or leave the game. We'll all have to make this dificult choice when our own personal thresholds are reached. If I don't like the auction I won't take part in it. I like the idea of subs too, but not if they ruin gameplay for me, so time will tell.

I've not included your overzealous use of imagery in the quote above, because it would fill a couple of pages but I'm starting to suspect you're not a happy little camper.

Anyone remember Gooples from wot? I think this is Gooples 2.0 from Russia. It would be interesting to know what the figures are of those that like subs versus those that don't. There must be massive support for them for plans to be advancing on their inclusion in randoms? I know I like playing them and think its a good addition to the game, but I am still in two minds as to the extent of their inclusion I'm happy with. Sorry, I know it's not what many enjoy hearing, but I have to say what I feel.

Can I play devils advocate here. I'm trying to understand why so many hate subs so much. What is the main issue people have with them? Apart from tweaking their gameplay in places, I still think they have a place in the game. Are we just resisting change or are there really significant reasons their implementation is being resisted so severely? Again, this was quite a thorough and reasonable explanation by WG in terms of their motivations for subs and the changes, which personally I appreciate. There are still some issues I disagree with, but the same can be said of all classes in the game. I still think the homing torps are too hard to dodge, and going on someone elses idea I'd prefer another consumable other than dam con be used to stop the lock. I think, if we're going state we hate the idea of subs, should we not be detailing valid reasons why? Or maybe some have? Sry folks, I sincerely respect the views being offered here, but so many are reacting rather than offering reason.

I like subs........

His reference to 'roll on' simply means 'bring it on' or more along the lines of less wait and see what it brings in terms of the future, rather than implying anything in the present. Think this is a case of 'lost in translation'.

Thanks WG, at work but checked my email and got the birthday email from you, much appreciated. Very kind gesture and some great PR for you.

yeh, T19 is basically this:

What about the Rochester that's just made it into the premium store?

Because you had the 3 radars on your team? You didn't elaborate , and purely subjective. Got the replay?