Shaka_D

Yes, I can see it's a fine line we all walk here, but I believe I am being no different to the general negative sentiment corrupting the subject surrounding subs. And I did not call all people who dislike subs dishonest. I also wasn't getting worked up at all, but clearly many on the forums here are. How you jumped to this conclusion, i do not know. I'm not trying to attack anyone personally, but all I'd like is a more constructive debate around their implementation. It's this simple. People hopping on the forums to say 'bye game' or 'i'm leaving' is silly imho and non-constructive, nor is it reasonable to quote potentially ficitious stats - these are only misleading, unverifiable and potentially untrue. There are numerous valid reasons people don't like subs, but to me and likely others, there are good reasons to implement them. For me, time will tell. For others, they don't like subs, don't trust WG and this distrust has probably tainted all future endevours by WG. We can all leave the game when we want to, noone is held here. No offense meant.

This really what you think? Is it WG themselves that have you angry, or the addition of subs? Can you even tell the difference anymore? So a person is not allowed to admit they like the idea of subs without being labeled as to be defending WG? This is nothing more that a witchhunt now.

Variety and greater diversity of gameplay, but you should also realise that the good reasons (or numerous apparent bad reasons) are highly subjective and depend on the difference tolerance levels of every single player..who ultimately need to decide for themsevles and hopefully not by mindlessly following other opinions. Thanks, that was easy enough and took me 30 seconds.

Just so you know, this is the point at which I stopped respecting your post. My points still stand. So far, despite trying, you've not proven anything to the contrary. It's all hyperbole. I wish you all the best.

How big is that depth charge?

Another person to keen on stating stats yet has nothing valid to draw from - 80-90%? Again, it's hyperbole. And 'Never happened in the past and won't happen in the future'? Why are you still playing the game then? 'Every single poll' - so these are all a true reflection of the wider playerbase? Hardly. Where are all these reliable, valid polls you speak of anyhow? And while I can't prove anything otherwise, nor can you, and the onus is on you to prove the stats you are so reliant on to back up your claims, not me. What do you think will happen, you can all sprout potentially inflated statistics and expect people to believe it all? Again hardly. And when someone like me questions it I get neg repped and criticised? Lol. Of course there are still issues with subs, but for people to discount their potential so blantantly is silly and perhaps a little overzealous. Much of this comes from a mistrust of WG. How objective is everyone being I wonder? Maybe you see conspiracy, I see potential at the moment. And while I look forward to playing subs more, I am also undecided as to their overall impact unless further improvements are made. And if in the end I don't agree with it, I will play another game. We have choice you know.

How is it condescending? By telling people to grow up and give it a chance before throwing their proverbial toys out the cot? Disappointment is understandeable, but childish threats? Less so. All anyone in numerous antisub posts are doing is 'telling' WG what to do themselves and now you're also telling me to go play the game instead of getting worked up? ROFL!. Add gaslighting to your list of now not so admirable traits, and draw great courage from the fact that most here are probably in full support of your views, while I'm one of the few being honest in admitting I think subs are a good addition to the game (though also acknowledge the need to fix them some more). Why should I be afraid to say so, I hadn't insulted anyone had I other than disagreed with them? If there was insult, I apologise, but some of the behaviour in this forum clearly comes across as childish and intolerable. How on earth is anything I am doing different from the rest of you?

People need to get over themselves instead of acting like childish brats. So we all get unhappy about things in the game at times. Personally, I'm at the point where I feel people who want to leave should leave instead of advertising it as such. I mean, who cares? Sure, we've all been there before, but at some point we really should all grow up a little. The overzealous critique of subs comes across as far too premature. Those concerned may all be right one day, but are we there yet? No, and maybe there's a chance it will be ok. There is a false consensus that EVERYONE doesn't want subs....created by the few flocking to the forums to state their disgust, and this just reinforces the idea it's a general feeling amongst the entire playerbase. I think we all realise it isn't necessarly so, and should stop stating as such.

How constructive.

No, I think thats false consensus by a long long way. There is so much negativity surrounding subs and while it's fully understandeable that many here are upset by their inclusion in the game, I'm not convinced of everyones motives. Some appear valid, but many are being reactive and resentful, and non-constructive. I'd say we give them a chance before threatening to leave. Some will adapt their gameplay, I know I will, some will leave - everyone has a choice. If subs turn out to be way too influential, then we run riot, but I think its far too soon and people need to be honest and question whether their motives are reasonable or not.

@YabbaCoe Any idea when we'll hear more about the lighthouse event? I think it was meant to begin today according to the website? Cheers

Indeed, this is the code by which the world operates. There is no real equity or fairness, only the illusion thereof. People / corporations / governments with money have all the power through agency granted to them by their money. It usually takes money to defeat money. The poor are the pawns being moved around the chessboard. Players in a game such as this, unless united in a common cause and it great numbers, are seen as transitory and a means to an end for a company. A companys first and foremost objective is to fulfil it's fiduciary duty, while corporate social responsibility is often last on the agenda.

Dude, why are your post titles sooooo long

There are other perhaps more valid reasons?

Yes, multiple for me.

90%...not sure this is credible at all. Total hyperbole.

Yeh, strange one. Their website says: The Lighthouse auction will be held from October 7 through 11 - and their reference to next week is now this week and it begins tomorrow. So they technically only have today to post the web article to keep with their word......hahahaha, that last part was a joke

I think only time will determine that because it's impossible to tell at this point who is right and wrong. WG are either gambling with an unpopular idea or the alternative is subs have been quite popular and therefore present good business opportunities for them. We can't really rely on the few resistive voices on the forums as a strong enough representation of popular opinion. WG's true motives can only be guessed and we're naturally and correctly doing so based on their historical behaviour. I remember completing numerous WG surveys, incuding questions about subs. There must be sufficient call for subs or maybe it's just one big experiment. If player numbers drop drastically, I think it would force a change?

When will we hear more of the lighthouse event? It's meant to start tomorrow is it not, the 7th Oct?

It'll all be ok folks, truly. Subs aren't the be all and end all of all things WoWs. There is no doubt the game is changing, but change is not always bad eh? Whether this is all good or bad only time will tell and we'll all have to decide if we want to continue or not. My guess is most folk will find new ways to play the game by adapting their playstyles. We've all had to do it numerous times in the past and each time we hated whatever was implemented against our collective will...but then we here are are also just a dubious minority who care about the game one way or the other - I suspect most of the playerbase who are absent from the forums just want to play the game in whatever state it happens to be. I cannot imagine WG would implement anything if it didn't make money one way or the other, so subs clearly have to offer some economical benefit to them? Maybe what they say about sub popularity is more true than not...and I never thought I'd ever say that! If it was true, would those resisting their implementation not therefore have to cede to the will of the majority?

Does anyone else find the sub rental system in the armory a little irritating and clunky? I'd rather they have rental on demand as opposed to being in a random bundle. If I don't feel like playing subs for a couple of days because I'm chasing particular mission sets etc then it's a waste. An on-demand rental system would also give better accuracy in terms of how many people want to play subs.

We're all toxic....WoWs is secretly one of Dante's levels of hell. But's it's also commonplace in most online multiplayer games where winning is required to aid progression of some sort, whether more money, xp, levelling up faster, fulfilling missions, etc. This wincentricity leads to greater toxicity - we're all from different backgrounds, ages, cultures in the EU...and this is a team game that pits team versus team with a mm which doesn't consider making opposing teams equitable other that ship classes. Nor does it require any particular skill to play the top tiers or competitive modes so you ultimately have people of different mindsets and skill being forced together. It is inevitable and relatively normal for there to be toxicity such as swearing, frustration, anger, resentment, etc. It's present in all sport and games. What is not acceptable is death threats, racism, death and disease wishing, etc. but many other forms of reaction are to be expected. They're all labelled toxic of course, but they're not all necessarily so. And whether something is toxic or not is in the eye of the beholder...a person with low resilience and in denial of their own lack of ability might see all criticism aimed at them as toxic. My own opinion is if you step into a competitive arena, don't be surprised by the level of competitiveness you'll face. Technically, a gloating winner is as bad as a sore loser, but all this stems from the very foundation upon which the game is laid...begin there and you'll see the very root of the toxicity. While soome behaviour is totoally unacceptable, we cannot always blame people, because we then deny our humanity.

I know right, that must have been some good shooting from the enemy because most bb's are at maximum distance letting their cruisers and dd's do all the tanking...

Even two would be quite difficult. Be nice if they equipped some ships with a torpedo lock jamming consumable that lasts a minute or so, to discourage a sub from trying to spam a single guy all the time..

That might be a solution to the sub problem..encourage eveyryone to play them to break the anticipated 4-8% barrier, haha.