Spuggy

It wouldn't matter. The amount of back and forth between Sub_Octavian and the Russian community about the cyclone changes is huge. The forumites are screaming for them to completely delete cyclones and Sub_Octavian (at one point) told them to HTFU and take it cause it's happening. Mainly because of the polling WG carried out (in game) which had an 82% approval rating for cyclones.

I'd rather he was working on fixing the complete ballsup of the upgrade redesigns. They're utterly terrible. Shame the only thing the Rusky's seem to be moaning about is the cyclone updates. The upgrade changes are mostly being ignored over there which means that WG will think they have done a good job on the upgrade changes.

I was using the identical ships as "Blank Canvases" and specialising each one. The Kongo is a very versatile ship. You can specialise in four different areas. Main Battery Specialist Secondary Battery Specialist (CQB) AA Specialist Stealth Specialist However, update 0.5.7 maybe taking all this away and leaving you with 4 identical ships as they are removing specialisation in favour of generalisation. Shame really.

Why has this been moved to "Current Update"? This is the wrong forum. This thread should be in PUBLIC TEST Please move to correct thread.

I get where he is coming from. A) He thinks that a radar antennae only spins when active in the real world (not true - they tend to always turn) B) He wants to be able to see when a cruiser is using Radar whilst outside of Radar detection range probably so that when he sees the radar has ran out he can dive into close range. Either way, this ain't going to happen.

The Upgrade redesign still removes choice. Please see below. I think War Gaming are missing the mark by a long shot with the upgrade changes. They set themselves a goal of created more meaningful choices and all they have done is remove choice and create generic builds for every ship in the game. If this is the direction they're going in they would be better off removing the choice all together and just making it a cost to upgrade your ship with a single module available for each slot. A really good acid test on if you're getting the upgrade changes right would be to create several different upgrades for a particular ship (a popular one) and then ask the community what the best build would be. If the community is split between several different builds you got it right. If they all go for the same thing then you got it wrong. The Kongo is a superb example of this. You have given us 4 Kongo BB's to have in our port. Identical ships each one. The only way to differentiate them is to use upgrades. You can set them all up differently then with corresponding Captains to specialize each one like this: ARP Kongo - Long Rang Main battery specialist ARP Hiei - Close Quarter Specialist ARP Haruna - AA Specialist ARP Kirishima - Stealth Specialist Your proposed changes remove all of this diversity and leave us with the same build for each ship. We now have 4 identical ships. That's just dull.

I'm guessing it's an "event" type ship that will be captained by nasty AI during a special event. Sink the I-401 or something. Only Fleet of Fog ships allowed in the battle. PvE style with the I-401 being the only enemy. Insanely fast. Heavily armed. Difficult to kill.

Okay…. Here is my feedback of the upgrade changes which I find to be very hit and miss. First Upgrade Slot ·Main Armaments Modification 1 (-20% to the risk of the main battery and torpedo tubes becoming incapacitated; +50% to main battery and torpedo tubes survivability) ·Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 (+100% to secondary battery and AA mounts survivability) ·Magazine Modification 1 (-70% to the risk of a ship's magazine detonation) These replacements for the current upgrades all seem just fine. They make sense and there is meaningful choice. AA and brawler builds who feel that their main armament is durable enough will choose the Auxiliary upgrade. Those who rely heavily on main armaments when fighting detected will go for Main armaments upgrade and the stealthy guys (IJN DD’s) will probably go for the magazine upgrade as those things seem to be particularly vulnerable to mag detonations. ·Gun Fire Control System Modification 0 (+20% to traverse speed of main turrets and torpedo tubes; +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -64% to maximum dispersion of main and secondary battery shells). This upgrade will be available only for Premium Japanese ships with 140-mm main guns (currently: Iwaki, Yubari and Katori) I don’t understand your thinking behind this upgrade option for those three ships only. It’s so powerful it might as well be welded to the ship when you buy it. No one will use anything else on those ships in this slot. This isn’t “choice”. It’s a mandatory upgrade for these ships. Also, this is the upgrade that the Mikasa needs right now. Second Upgrade Slot Removed Upgrades: ·Secondary Battery Modification 2 (+20% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells) Removal of this upgrade is a bad idea. It provides people a way to specialize their ship builds. In fact, this upgrade could use a buff to make it more appealing. +25% range and -25% dispersion (Sprinkle in a 5% secondary RoF bonus too ) would make this a great upgrade for close quarter style players. Do not delete this upgrade. ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 1 (+16% to main battery maximum firing range) This is an exceptionally powerful upgrade (I believe only USN BB’s have access to it). This upgrade should not be removed. Keep it. It was popular and good as is. ·Torpedo Tubes Modification 2 (-10% to torpedo tubes repair time; +20% to the torpedo tubes traverse speed) This is a strange one. I use this one on my Kamikaze R simply cause it’s kinda the best choice for that ship type already. It’s a bit of a weak upgrade but if you added a +5knt speed bonus to torpedoes it would be a very good upgrade. Reload time is a no go because of torpedo soup issues. ·Gun Fire Control System Modification 1 (-7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells) This upgrade is very good already. Keep it. Possibly even buff it slightly. Added Upgrades: ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 1 (+16% to main battery maximum firing range; -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells). This upgrade will be available only for US battleships This upgrade is poorly thought out. It becomes the only choice in a USN BB as faster turning turrets just doesn’t compare to this. It’s also weirdly disconnected – main battery range and 2ndary accuracy? – If you want to have a “Bundled all rounder” upgrade then you need to lower the bonuses. +8% main battery range & +10% secondary range makes more sense. This way you get more of an All Rounder setup instead of the specialized setups. Otherwise you’re actually removing choice with this one. ·Aiming Systems Modification 1 (+5% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells; +20% to the torpedo tubes traverse speed; -7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells) The only thing really useful here is the accuracy buff for the main battery which should be an individual upgrade anyway due to the fact that it is really powerful. You could redesign this into another all rounder upgrade that buffs AA strength and range by a small amount Reworked Upgrades: ·Main Battery Modification 2 (+5% to main battery loading time; +15% to the main battery traverse speed) Still the weakest option and the only penalized one. Remove the penalty and buff to 20% bonus. Becomes very appealing. Third Upgrade Slot For this slot, the available upgrades are now more useful in terms of enhancing the performance of auxiliary armaments. Reworked Upgrades: ·Main Battery Modification 3 (-12% to main battery loading time; -17% to the main battery traverse speed): the penalty has been decreased to -13% to the main battery traverse speed This is okay. Just let me fit it to lower tier ships please ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 2 (-7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells): the bonus has been increased to -16% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells. This upgrade will be available only for US battleships Super powerful upgrade. However, why do the USN BB’s get such exclusive upgrades and other nations don’t? ·AA Guns Modification 3 (+20% to average damage per second of AA mounts): the bonus has been increased to +25% to average damage per second of AA mounts Great for AA specialists. Please let me fit this to lower tier ships. ·Secondary Battery Modification 3 (-20% to secondary battery loading time): the bonus has been increased to -25% to secondary battery loading time Great for CQB specialists. Please let me fit this to lower tier ships. Fifth Upgrade Slot We increased the usefulness of an upgrade that was rarely used by players. Reworked Upgrades: Propulsion Modification 2 (-20% to time for reaching full power) the bonus has been increased to -50% to time for reaching full power. Moreover, with this upgrade the engine is automatically boosted by 50% while the ship accelerates from 0 to 6 knots (in both ahead and astern directions) Very interesting. I like the look of it and it might be useful enough to be an actual choice vs faster rudder shift.

Okay…. Here is my feedback of the upgrade changes which I find to be very hit and miss. First Upgrade Slot ·Main Armaments Modification 1 (-20% to the risk of the main battery and torpedo tubes becoming incapacitated; +50% to main battery and torpedo tubes survivability) ·Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 (+100% to secondary battery and AA mounts survivability) ·Magazine Modification 1 (-70% to the risk of a ship's magazine detonation) These replacements for the current upgrades all seem just fine. They make sense and there is meaningful choice. AA and brawler builds who feel that their main armament is durable enough will choose the Auxiliary upgrade. Those who rely heavily on main armaments when fighting detected will go for Main armaments upgrade and the stealthy guys (IJN DD’s) will probably go for the magazine upgrade as those things seem to be particularly vulnerable to mag detonations. ·Gun Fire Control System Modification 0 (+20% to traverse speed of main turrets and torpedo tubes; +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -64% to maximum dispersion of main and secondary battery shells). This upgrade will be available only for Premium Japanese ships with 140-mm main guns (currently: Iwaki, Yubari and Katori) I don’t understand your thinking behind this upgrade option for those three ships only. It’s so powerful it might as well be welded to the ship when you buy it. No one will use anything else on those ships in this slot. This isn’t “choice”. It’s a mandatory upgrade for these ships. Second Upgrade Slot Removed Upgrades: ·Secondary Battery Modification 2 (+20% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells) Removal of this upgrade is a bad idea. It provides people a way to specialize their ship builds. In fact, this upgrade could use a buff to make it more appealing. +25% range and -25% dispersion (Sprinkle in a 5% secondary RoF bonus too ) would make this a great upgrade for close quarter style players. Do not delete this upgrade. ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 1 (+16% to main battery maximum firing range) This is an exceptionally powerful upgrade (I believe only USN BB’s have access to it). This upgrade should not be removed. Keep it. It was popular and good as is. ·Torpedo Tubes Modification 2 (-10% to torpedo tubes repair time; +20% to the torpedo tubes traverse speed) This is a strange one. I use this one on my Kamikaze R simply cause it’s kinda the best choice for that ship type already. It’s a bit of a weak upgrade but if you added a +5knt speed bonus to torpedoes it would be a very good upgrade. Reload time is a no go because of torpedo soup issues. ·Gun Fire Control System Modification 1 (-7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells) This upgrade is very good already (IJN only I believe). Keep it. Possibly even buff it slightly. Added Upgrades: ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 1 (+16% to main battery maximum firing range; -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells). This upgrade will be available only for US battleships This upgrade is poorly thought out. It becomes the only choice in a USN BB as faster turning turrets just doesn’t compare to this. It’s also weirdly disconnected – main battery range and 2ndary accuracy? – If you want to have a “Bundled all rounder” upgrade then you need to lower the bonuses. +8% main battery range & +10% secondary range makes more sense. This way you get more of an All Rounder setup instead of the specialized setups. Otherwise you’re actually removing choice with this one. ·Aiming Systems Modification 1 (+5% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells; +20% to the torpedo tubes traverse speed; -7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells) The only thing really useful here is the accuracy buff for the main battery which should be an individual upgrade anyway due to the fact that it is really powerful. You could redesign this into another all rounder upgrade that buffs AA strength and range by a small amount Reworked Upgrades: ·Main Battery Modification 2 (+5% to main battery loading time; +15% to the main battery traverse speed) Still the weakest option and the only penalized one. Remove the penalty and buff to 20% bonus. Becomes very appealing. Third Upgrade Slot For this slot, the available upgrades are now more useful in terms of enhancing the performance of auxiliary armaments. Reworked Upgrades: ·Main Battery Modification 3 (-12% to main battery loading time; -17% to the main battery traverse speed): the penalty has been decreased to -13% to the main battery traverse speed This is okay. Just let me fit it to lower tier ships please ·Artillery Plotting Room Modification 2 (-7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells): the bonus has been increased to -16% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells. This upgrade will be available only for US battleships Super powerful upgrade. However, why do the USN BB’s get such exclusive upgrades and other nations don’t? ·AA Guns Modification 3 (+20% to average damage per second of AA mounts): the bonus has been increased to +25% to average damage per second of AA mounts Great for AA specialists. Please let me fit this to lower tier ships. ·Secondary Battery Modification 3 (-20% to secondary battery loading time): the bonus has been increased to -25% to secondary battery loading time Great for CQB specialists. Please let me fit this to lower tier ships. Fifth Upgrade Slot We increased the usefulness of an upgrade that was rarely used by players. Reworked Upgrades: Propulsion Modification 2 (-20% to time for reaching full power) the bonus has been increased to -50% to time for reaching full power. Moreover, with this upgrade the engine is automatically boosted by 50% while the ship accelerates from 0 to 6 knots (in both ahead and astern directions) Very interesting. I like the look of it and it might be useful enough to be an actual choice vs faster rudder shift.

Short answer : Yes Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

However, that is not the module upgrade you will get for her. You will get the: · Aiming Systems Modification 1 (+5% to secondary battery maximum firing range; -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells; +20% to the torpedo tubes traverse speed; -7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells)

In hindsight, they should have gone a different path with upgrades. Instead of bundling them all together into a shitty bundle (we love bundles on the EU server, right?) they should have made very strong upgrades that were super specialized. This way you can specialize your ship in a very particular way but you sacrifice everything else. There could then be the bundled upgrades but these would provide weaker but broader spectrum upgrades to your ship as an "All Rounder" alternative to specialization. Currently, WG are removing all choice and giving us one viable option in each instance, the irony is that they're are doing this when they are trying to achieve the exact opposite. Total game design and development fail.

Well that's an hilarious fail

Three ships of the same class in your port is actually way more useful than you think. Currently, you can only have a single instance of a ship in your port so you can only set it up in a specific way and have a Captain trained for that instance. Having multiples of the same type allow you to specialize each ship. You can push the AA to the max on one. You can go super stealthy on the other or simply just focus on the main guns. This way you end up with three fairly different ships with different commanders and different play styles

These are all good changes however...... Main Battery Modification 2 - This modification is still inferior to the others due to it being the only one to have a penalty in the group. Remove the penalty and it becomes at least an option. Right now. Not an option. Aiming Systems Modification 1 - The vastly superior option of the 3. Will in most cases be the only upgrade fitted in this slot. This is a bad thing as you might as well only have this as the option. You need to make the other options more appealing by either adding a penalty to this upgrade, removing the penalty from the alternative upgrade or nerfing this upgrade/buffing the other upgrade. Otherwise... it looks good so far

The way it works is purely game design (and a tinsy wincy bit of reality sprinkled on top). When designing assets for a game (the ships) you have to balance them to prevent anything being overpowered or the massively preferred choice. Otherwise there is no point in having different assets. These assets are balanced against each other by having very different stats but they can never have everything. For example, IJN DD's have excellent torpedo range and excellent stealth They also have decent maneuverability They pay for these benefits by having dogshit guns that turn really slowly and the ship is rather flimsy. On the flip side, RU DD's have excellent survivability and superb guns They are super fast But they pay for this with poor turning circle (making them a little clumsy) and having very short range, although stronk torpedoes. WG are very good at balancing the ships and creating pretty good unique game play for each ship class. Where they fall down is the "bolt ons". These are the upgrades and the captain skills. When designing a group of upgrades to a ships performance you want to create meaningful choice. If you make one item that is all cake with nothing bad about it without offering a meaningful alternative you essentially have created a single asset and "trap" assets. The BB main battery upgrades are a prime example of this. USN BB gets the range upgrade (because they have shorter range) and the IJN get the accuracy upgrade (as they have the range already). All other upgrades are essentially trash because they are situational and you will always need your big guns so big gun upgrade is the way to go and forget about that upgrade that has a draw back because the other doesn't. So there is no choice. There is only the choice of whether or not you have the coin to pay for it. This is bad design when it comes to games. A player should always feel like they have weighed the pros and the cons, considered their preferred game play style and then made a decision on how they would like their ship to perform. This empowers a player and makes them feel "important" instead of just another "well I've got to use this cause everyone else does" When improving a ships performance in a certain area you are effectively changing the balance of the ship. So if you improve stat "A" you should lose a little of stat "B" to maintain a little of the balance. The upgrade should always very much outweigh the drawback though to make the item still appealing. It's also very easy when it comes to the main bettery on deciding what the drawback of a certain upgrade is. Longer range is always balanced with slower turning turrets Faster turning turrets is always balanced with shorter range Better accuracy is balanced against RoF (as more of your shots per volley will land having a lower RoF is a balancing factor) Better RoF means loss of accuracy (think firing a hand gun quickly verses aimed shots) This isn't something I just "want". This is the kind of game design which is good. Having your cake and eating it, as in having a single upgrade module that's the definitive choice means that this item become essential for competitive game play and the only choice is whether you have the cash to buy it or not.

My point about having drawbacks is about balance and creating meaningful choice. I agree. No drawbacks would be wonderful but then ALL upgrades should have any drawbacks removed. However, packaging it all up the way they have just makes that one particular module the absolute best and will make the alternative a complete no go. Even more so than it is now. Personally I would go with this: Main Battery Plotting Room Upgrade 16% increase to Main Battery Range 7% slower main battery traverse speed Gun Fire Control System Upgrade 7% increase to Main Battery Accuracy 10% longer main battery reload time Main Battery Hydraulics Upgrade 20% increase to Main Battery traverse speed 8% reduction in Main Battery range Main Battery Gun Rammer Upgrade 10% faster reload time of main battery 5% reduction in main battery accuracy This way all the upgrades are appealing and will offer you an upgrade with a minor drawback. Having all the cake in one upgrade just isn't a good idea.

But it's not good game design to remove most of the choices. It's also bad game design to make one choice less appealing because it has a drawback but the other choice has no drawback so you would only ever choose the one without the drawback. When talking about buffs in game design it should always be a case of "Give with one hand and take away with the other" It's really easy to do this with the ship upgrades system. Especially the main battery upgrades The rule of thumb should work like this: If you upgrade Main Battery Turret Rotation Speed you should lose Main Battery Range If you Buff Main Battery Accuracy you should lose Rof and you simply go the opposite way around. It's simple balancing. The buffing would be stronger than the debuffing so you would always get more than you lose but there should always be a price to pay.

Hhhmmmmm, It looks like instead of making the "less useful" upgrades useful they've just packaged them up with the useful ones. This removes choice and specialization from the game. Those "best" upgrades should have had drawbacks added and the worst ones buffed to be appealing. For example. The Main Battery Accuracy Upgrade should also get a draw back to main battery turning speed. Main battery turret rotation already gets a drawback to RoF so this is fine. Main Battery RoF upgrade should get a drawback in the form of increased shell dispersion etc etc. This way you "fix" the overpowered upgrades and make choice relevant when slapping upgrades on your ship. Otherwise it just all becomes irrelevant and meaningless. Packaging the upgrades like this you might as well just call them "Upgrade 1" "Upgrade 2" etc etc and only have one option in each module. Bland Bland Bland

I don't understand why WG don't give special captains as a reward. This would be a far better way of giving out something meaningful that isn't a loss in a monetary sense. For example. A premium ship, which is what everyone wants, is a prize that removes money from WG A Ship captain isn't really something you can buy so it only removes "grind" from the game but is still a very meaningful reward. These Captains could be actual captains from history with specialist skills (and drawbacks) who are special to a particular ship class and you can't retrain them. Example: Cpt. Ernest E. Evans - Commander USS Johnston (DD-557) Fletcher Class Skills: Tier 1 - Basic Fire Training - Basic Survivability - Situational Awareness Tier 2 - Aiming Expert Tier 3 - High Alert Tier 4 - Survivability Expert Tier 5 - Concealment Expert Traits Unlucky but Tenacious - +30% chance that Steering Gears and Engine will be disabled but only -15% loss in rudder shift time (Modified "Last Stand" Skill) Brave to the End - -30% to the reload of all armaments and consumables when ship HP below 25% (Modified "Last Chance" Skill) This would then be a 17 point Captain locked to a Fletcher class (or a premium USN ship) that can't be retrained or gain more skills. Also, the skills may not be those someone would always choose for a USN DD Captain but that's the point. It's designed to reflect the actual Captain from history. I Would love rewards like this as a top level grind reward. Better than a flag in my eyes.

As an engineer myself, who actually works at the Parsons site (where most of the turbines in all naval ships were made - yeah I know, cool eh. We still make turbine blades here now!) I see Le Terrible has a bizarre performing engine. She was getting the fastest speeds with the least horsepower. Maybe a very calm day? Best bearings in the prop shafts? Coal from mines in the Tyne and Wear area? (best coal in the world). Roughly 400rpm on the shaft seems to be a hard limit but she was achieving that at a much lower HP and getting the fastest speeds!

Poi

When I'm having losing streaks it's my go to have fun and win ship. It's insanely good. Being a ninja is so much fun. I do go full Japanese mode when in it though. Can't stop saying "Poi" in chat throughout the match. My answer to everything.

You say that and yes, Stalinium rounds in an Atlanta would be hilarious but the 127mm catapult launchers are super useful for hugging your waifu, whereas RU 130 mm have a pretty flat trajectory. You'd have to be pretty exposed to use them often

A fully specc'd AA Kongo with captain skills gets over 50 AA rating. I think a lot of the guns are over 85mm too so the CPT Skill that buffs manual target allocation is monstrous. At tier 5 that's not to be sniffed at. The Secondaries aren't terrible either. A fully specc'd secondary build with captain skills etc is a good close range brawler. It does make the ship operate a little differently from a normal Kongo build so it gives you that difference in gameplay. The fourth build is a difficult one though. Not sure how to spec it. Need to check stats.