Elgerino

Reducing spread vastly increases damage dealt in any case so there's no need for a damage buff. This doesn't need to increase effectiveness against cruisers significantly as I've explained, cruisers avoid damage by dodging shells not by relying on the RNG gods guiding hand to force the shells to splash around them, which is BB's only option up to about 18km. The important point for cruisers is shell travel time, not accuracy. I believe I'm right and I find it hard to operate on the opposite assumption, but let's say I am in fact wrong. A failsafe is not difficult, you can just change the curve of the graph on shell dispersion. Reduce maximum dispersion whilst keeping current accuracy for 12km-14km ranges. You could even scale shell travel time higher, exaggerate how much the shell slows down in the air. There is plenty that can be done to safeguard smaller ships whilst making BB's more effective against eachother.

If you weren't talking trash you would have explained how your ''But seeing so much crying about japanese cruisers I would suggest WG to give them 25km torpedo range and guided rockets because they dont know how to aim.'' comment makes sense, but you won't because you can't. Everything else you say is just trash talking fluff aimed to distract from something dumb you said. It's clear there's a problem with BB accuracy with how RNG it is and we don't need US BB's to see that. If US BB's are less RNG, then they're going to be a lot more powerful in which case Jap BB's will need a buff anyway. It's simple reasoning, hardly rocket science. If both are RNG heavy at long range and that's how the devs want it, fine, I don't have a huge problem with that. All this is about is making BB's more effective against each other at long range and the game doesn't explicitly need that.

You're just talking trash, let's not pretend other-wise.You blatantly replied to to a discussion about Jap Cruisers vs BB's with l2p. There's no room for interpretation, if you missed the point of the conversation then say so but it seems to me you're just trying to save face by confusing things. Also, if you could stop bandying around the l2p comment as if you're a great player when really you're mediocre, that'd be great.

So just talking tosh, then. Because when we were talking about Jap Cruisers against BB's earlier, you said we should get 25km torps and guided missiles because we can't aim. Now low and behold it turns out we were right, you're not supposed to use the torps against BB's and you were just being an antagonising twerp.

Perhaps you'd like to tell me how to aim my torps in such a fashion that I can make 10km range stretch to 14km so I don't simply get one shot by a BB before I use them? Or are you just talking tosh. Because when I use my BB's, a jap cruiser closing to torp range makes me go starry eyed with all the free damage I'm about to earn.

I theorise that it does, because unless I'm mistaken your maximum dispersion stays the same despite an increase in range. What this means is that your dispersion scales more slowly over distance, so you have less dispersal at the same firing distances as before.

A cruiser who fires HE at another cruiser, especially a Japanese one is most certainly a gigantic nub.

I'm afraid you win because you're playing poor or inexperienced players. Your DPM is vastly reduced versus US Cruisers because their citadels are much more well armoured, versus yours which is glass. If a round flies into your citadel, it's almost certainly penetrating it. Hitting a US Cruiser citadel with 203mm is far more situational. The difference in gun capabilities gets even more comical as you reach Tier 10, the Des Moines has the firepower of two Senjo and it has a much more well armoured citadel. What does Senjo get? 8km torps. When the game was balanced, Senjo used to get 9.2 rounds a minute, giving it more overall firepower than Des Moines and Long Lances, still it was difficult to beat a Des Moines with a Senjo for the same reasons it's difficult for Myoko to beat New Orleans, paper vs armoured citadels. I don't know what wargaming is playing at with Jap Cruisers, but they're not even a shadow of what they used to be.

That's because Jap Cruisers are inherently flawed in this game. They get 10km range torpedoes but trying to get within even 12km of a BB results in being one shot. Jap cruisers are balanced with 20km Long Lances in mind, which they used to have from Myoko upwards. But they were removed without any counter balance at all, so they are basically trash now I'm afraid. Besides Mogami of course, which has the firepower to match US cruisers like for like. Beyond that though, Japs do poorly in gun battles and they can't get close enough for effect with torps, so they're out of their depth, pun intended.

Well, Fuso is much better at taking down cruisers than any other BB and even Fuso isn't effective against cruisers outside 12-14km. The primary problem with hitting them is not the accuracy of the guns but the travel time of the shell, you've basically got to predict where they're going to be when the shells land and a cruiser who isn't simply sailing in a straight line ignorant of the consequences will force you to miss, a lot. This is the reason that despite the amount of shells and the width of the net that hail of fire casts, Fuso effective range against cruisers is not much greater than Nagato. An increase in accuracy therefore would not lead to a huge increase in cruiser hits, a reduction in shell travel time on the other hand would, because the only ships that can't simply swerve out of the path of your shells no matter how accurate are BB's. It's all about rudder time vs shell travel time. Your Fuso vs Cleveland example is the most favourable to your argument, because you've taken the most powerful BB versus Cruisers and matched up it against a CL with limited range but even this example doesn't exactly portray the picture you claim it does. I could just as easily cite tier for tier every BB vs Cruiser matchup beyond tier six and my way of seeing things becomes more and more the way things ultimately play out.

Look, it's one thing to say reducing RNG goes too far. It's quite another to exaggerate BB's strengths. The magic heal button is at best minor patchwork that repairs a minority of the damage caused and you can't just oneshot any cruiser you like. Cruisers who show the faintest awareness of BB effective ranges and utilise their agility in even a moderate way will avoid taking significant damage the majority of the time, realistically a cruiser should never be one shot except in situations where they can't help but get too close or in a freak occurrence at long range. Reducing the RNG would be a minor increase in power against smaller vessels, because BB's can't hit aware Cruises at range anyway, the travel travel time on the round sees to that. It would be done mainly to decrease the dice roll for long range slugging with BB's, which I support.

Games had this issue as long as I can remember playing, since November I think?

I think the principal complaint is that it's underpowered and that's the source of frustration. I maintain it's an upgrade as long as you haven't gotten into the habit of only fighting long range engagements, because at long range armour is irrelevant. Why wouldn't someone who's fallen into that style of play believe Fuso is more powerful, considering it's guns darken the skies? It's going to feel like you get more hits if you fire more shells and the deck armour is thin enough it won't bounce 14'' anyway. As for armour not working properly...only the devs can tell. I wouldn't put too much faith in alpha testers, I spoke to one who until last week hadn't even noticed that armour was in the game, he thought armour as a system was still coming in a future patch.

Firstly, the BB's you're against have the same capabilities as you whether you're at long range or not. Closing to ranges where you're more effective just makes the engagement more decisive, which is what your team needs. As for other cruisers, they all have 15-16km range anyway and they're far more accurate so it's not as if you can stop cruisers peppering you. The first thing BB players need to learn is that you're not invulnerable and the game is not setup to let you eliminate targets at range at the sort of pace you need to win the game. You have to get stuck in and you have to realise that you can't do everything. Enough cruisers ganging up on you will sink you no matter what you do, after all. Right...but you'll be doing the same thing to them only better, hopefully. You can try to play by different rules if you want, but the game isn't going to magically evolve to make your long range stratagem more effective. You don't need to cherry pick, everyone is playing by the same rules. Everyone has to push the points and cap zones, everyone has to maximise their chances of killing cruisers before the cruisers whittle them down. Everyone has to kill BB's as quickly as possible to reduce the enemies potential firepower. That's where tactical cohesion and personal ability separates you from them. I don't care about the sync rate or the misrepresentation of the target, I'm fully aware that those are issues and I deal with them accordingly. The problem with long range BB combat is the low potential for citadel strikes and the high chance of missing despite aiming perfectly, even taking into account what you've mentioned. Yes, there are those miracle hits where you do 40k damage at 20km. But they are miracles for everything except Yamato, which has great accuracy and grouping comparatively. I know what you're going to say, that you get lots of those hits. I'm telling you that you don't, you're just remembering extreme examples more than you remember the hundreds of shots that never hit their mark. If you start allowing a closing of range then you'll start seeing them more and more often and your average damage is going to spike hugely. BB's undoubtedly suck at range, just because they're the only gunship with max range that high it doesn't mean that range can be utilised.

Range = irrelevant. Even if they try to exploit it, Kongo and Fuso are pretty much totally ineffective at those ranges. Yeah, but you can't compensate for the movement of the ships. No matter how good you are, a fifteen second shell travel time is crippling to your hit rate unless the opponent sails in a straight line, then of course it doesn't matter what ship they have or what the balance is, you'll beat them. Anyway, this is all based on flawed BB combat doctrine for this game. Your max range is where you're safest but also the most useless to the team and it is not conducive to killing enemy ships quickly, which a BB can do if it engages at 15km for BB's and 12km for Cruisers, using the BB's armour, HP pool and repairs to soak up damage whilst destroying enemy ships. Only Yamato reliably hits at 20km. Allow me to point out the fact that getting a citadel hit every so often is not a reliable hit rate. Whilst Fuso and Kongo reload 2 rounds a minute, they also have less damage and penetration for their shells. This might not be hugely important in long range slugfests, where you only need to penetrate the deck, which is extremely easy until Yamato, which is easy enough in its own right. But long range slug fests aren't important in the first place. Nagato will citadel your Fuso and Kongo at any range, the same cannot be said the other way around. This is an extremely important difference for what should be the BB standard practise of closing range and maximising your effectiveness. This amounts to your point C being a load of rubbish. Except you're not playing her just fine are you? You get sub 1k average experience with the Nagato. You get 750 exp average with the Fuso. This is interesting, because it shows that whilst you feel more effective with the Fuso, you're actually more effective with the Nagato. There's another interesting aspect with your stats. Your average damage is a third of mine and your hit rate is 7% less. Now granted, you play a lot of cruisers, more than I do, which goes some way to explaining the lower damage. But it also supports my theory, that you spend way too much time at your maximum range with BB's, way too much time to realise their potential.

This doesn't seem like the normal visibility BS though. It's not as if you have to aim in front of where you think the a tank is going to end up. WoT doesn't misreport positions at all really. In WoWs, the targets position is being completely misrepresented, almost by the length of the ship again. You can see the rounds explode and register hits a few hundred metres in front of the target, I've never seen that in WoT. Likewise you can nail the centre/rear of the ship and get splashing. This is happens even if the target is constantly spotted and the movement of the ship is smooth. There's something deeper and perhaps correctable going on here.

Evilchen is right, at long ranges, typically 18km plus, a desync between the ships actual position and the model is very very common.

You guys put too much importance on range, firstly. Neither Fuso nor Nagato are actually effective at their max range. Secondly the guns are more powerful, one thing we we have no solid data on is penetration mechanics. But we know armour is in the game and we know each shell type has it's own penetration values, 16'' shells are therefore going to be more likely to punch through to the citadel. This is true in my experience, I found Fuso was more effective with smaller ships but not as good versus larger targets. I have no solid basis for why this is, but higher penetration values would make a lot of sense to me, as I found Nagato much better at the task of hitting BB citadels.

Yeah, cruisers are the ones with RNG damage. You should actually try BB's, buddy.

There is no noticeable decrease in turning circle, as far as I can tell. I'll re-evaluate if the devs say something different, not getting bogged down in this like I did the lower throttle = more accuracy debacle.

It only took me a week to get to Yamato and I didn't even hardcore it as much as I could have. Exp is very generous right now.

That's detection range. There is a module that increases your target range and in this game your target range is your gun range, it's called Gun Fire Control System Mod 1, I think only Tier X ships can mount it.

I'm afraid you're wrong. All competitive games will have this issue, unless the community remains small or the game dies to a small sample. I'd be interested to know in what game this isn't the case.

Don't think your intellect has anything to do with it. There'll be plenty of smack talkers who're Einstein compared to you. That said, disable chat function is probably best.

The past, being the key word. This is the now and this is how gamers generally act. I can't think of a game that has a better state of affairs than this that isn't niche or dead.