Elgerino

Exactly. The mod is no use for hitting players who evade, that's just a fact. Sail in a straight line and you're an easy kill whether they use the mod or not.

It's more that when people make stupid claims (Like that removing XVM stops trolls) I get annoyed. I expect basic cognitive reasoning from people who've made an effort to sign up to a forum and debate these things, not the sorts of people that think using a metaphor is being a kindergartener and that the only use of XVM is bullying bad players, I've already explained in the very post you cited that there's more to it than that, not that you actually give the slightest crap what a pro-XVM opinion looks like. As an example for silly reasoning: This guy. Who actually tries to claim that afk players happen because of XVM and community problems don't exist outside the lens of aim modding and XVM. It's so utterly wrong you don't even know where to start.

Sorry, imbalance? Not sure what you mean. Besides, removing XVM has knock on effects. How much mod functionality will be lost to make it impossible? Also, the fact that you brought up warpack as if it's actually a genuine thing...Everyone knows only half the mods in that thing actually work and all of them you can get individually without paying. Dude, he said he wanted it removed so he doesn't get primary targeted. That's selfish. Saying so is not the same as saying because I have it installed I'm a philanthropist, Mr Strawman. Wanting it removed because it causes community problems is a more genuine reason that shows you at least give a crap outside your own circumstances, but I maintain that's not a valid reason because community problems exist with or without XVM. Let's be sensible here. I played a bit of WoWp in the beta but it wasn't my kind of game. Other-wise, I can only disagree that primarying targets in WoWs is the same, it really isn't. You can brute force stack up on a guy in WoWp, in WoWs you can focus fire at a target but only if he's close are you actually going to destroy him quickly. You can totally limit the impact of this sort of thing. I play to win, that may include playing with my team mates, it may include throwing them to the wolves. XVM helps me make an informed decision on how much I can trust the team and if some troll decides to pick on me because I haven't played a certain way, which will happen whether XVM is in or not, well I've got his stats to slap him right back with haven't I? There's no downside for me. Sure I'm primary target sometimes, I don't consider it a significant problem either in WoWs or WOT. The only people who are suffering as a direct result of XVM are the people who get primary targeted. If you think you're being abused in chat by trolls because XVM is enabling it, I've got news for you guys. That'll happen EITHER WAY.

Well, go on then. How am I supposed to learn if all you say is ''disable XVM!'', Sensei? If stats are the enemy, how do you propose handling them? Assuming for a second that I'm willing to entertain the idea that XVM is a bad way to handle it. Can I also point out that your reasons for wanting XVM gone are somewhat selfish. Few people have to deal with being automatic primary target in a fight and only in WoWp is that actually a serious issue, you can't brute force an attack on an important player in WoWs or WOT in the same way you can in WoWp. I can't help but feel like telling you to deal with it.

Only a problem for some people, whom common sense is alien.

I don't need to generalise. There's only one difference between removing XVM and removing chat completely, removing chat would actually fix the problem. Also, you're aware that you can report people for all types of abuse right? Including those who use XVM stats as a premise? I didn't realise metaphor was a domain exclusive unto toddlers.

Of course XVM doesn't help, it can't fix a fundamental problem with human nature. How about we take it a step further and just disable chat in the game completely? After all, they misuse that too. Surely you support removing any feature that contributes to the problem? You can't see the forest for the trees. You chip away features for the sake of not fixing a problem.

NOOOOO, for crying out loud. There was a time when XVM wasn't in the game and it was exactly the same. XVM didn't create the culture, the culture completely pre-dates XVM. Every game of this type and beyond whether you can see stats or not has the ''armchair generals'' and ''tryhards'', many of them are even worse. Think about it for a second. You can see it in WoWs now, every other game there's an argument in chat and the game isn't even open access yet, we've got a tiny proportion of the trolls who are to come. People don't get it. It's as if they think this community was all sunshine and power of love before XVM came along and stamped all over it. It's bollocks.

Seriously, if you're getting hit at max range constantly you're the problem. The mod literally cannot compensate for the targets change in direction after you fire, it's impossible without changing the trajectory of the shells mid flight, no mod can do that. If they're hitting you it's because either you're stupid and you sail in straight lines or because they're predicting your position after you dodge, which the mod cannot do, so they deserve praise for pulling it off. Explain how what I just said is wrong or keep your trap shut.

THAT HAPPENS ANYWAY. Jesus christ. People have short memories indeed if they don't remember a time when people used to quit based on tank balance. Even in the CBT, players would quit when it was IS7's versus Maus stacks. Stop blaming XVM for stuff that happens either way.

You're a noob because your name is Dan. Look how easy it was to be a jerk without XVM. They'll use any justification whether stats are there or not and as someone who played since CBT on WOT, XVM didn't increase instances of arguments, it just increased the back and forth because stats gave the victims a means to fight back. That's a good thing. Remove XVM and we just go back to the bad old days when the trolls could nitpick peoples performance every game and we couldn't just say ''Look at your win rate and performance, you're the worst player here hypocrite.'' and move on with our lives.

Happens with or without XVM. When someone dies on the toilet, do you ban toilets? Or do you try to promote healthier lifestyles so less middle-aged fat people pop their hearts when they're constipated?

That's completely subjective though, absolutely explainable so a replay wouldn't help. I would still tell you to stop jumping to conclusions even if you showed me a replay of everyone aiming in front, because that's exactly what I'd expect to happen. Most people are too tunnel vision to check the map or remember about borders.

Ah yes, but before the mod people called that border skirting and you would've been the cheater in these complainers minds. The reason being that the border stops you abruptly and is difficult to aim for because you strafe instead of moving in the direction you should be. Which explains why people aim in front of you too, they just haven't realised that you've stopped. In fact, depending on how the mod works it probably takes that into account, so people who actually hit you whilst you're border skirting are more suspicious. But I wouldn't jump to conclusions on that either.

It wasn't directed specifically at him but the complainers in general. But thinking about it, I would still class what he said as a silly excuse. He framed it as if getting shot coming out behind an island is this super unlikely thing and even one person doing it is quote ''very lucky'' as opposed to the likely truth, that he has a bit of experience under his belt. Hasn't he massaged his ego by blaming mods and absolving himself of responsibility for dying? Maybe I'm being too harsh, but 200 posts in this community will do that to ya.

I agree, I don't mind it being removed. I do mind it being used as a silly excuse to keep playing badly though, which there is A LOT of in this thread.

You know before XVM the same thing happened based on tank balance. Jerks are created by bad parenting, not XVM. They're always going to find a reason to act the way they act whether XVM is around or not. Don't get it twisted.

Whether you were spotted or not is a separate issue and one that doesn't have an affect on whether the shots that hit you were legit or not. Even if all three of them were using it, the mod doesn't expose your position when you're not spotted, that's server side. You can tell how fast they're moving and in what direction by watching their movement in relation to the rock and their direction on the map. The rest is all instinct, whilst the shot is harder it is not reasonable to blame such a shot on the mod. Of course, I don't mind cynicism. I recommend it. What pisses me off looking at this thread is the amount of people blaming ordinary shots on mods and people claiming that a mod is doing something it can't. This mod gives bad players a boost, it doesn't give people super human accuracy.

I don't see the reasoning behind this. Are you honestly saying that only one in three players could have the wherewithal to know you're going to sail past the rock? Anyone who's locked onto you knows you're moving and anyone who knows how to press alt knows where you're going to end up once you come out. You call it very lucky that one ship managed it, as if they've achieved some grand master level voodoo in order to pull it off. I call that commonplace, not lucky. You guys are insane. What magical property do you think islands have that they protect you from a good predictive shot?

No mod is going to help you constantly hit at max range unless your target is sailing in a straight line. All this mod really does is help people who lack practised aim add on the necessary prediction, it does not turn your shells into guided missiles and it cannot help you hit evading targets, surely. It does nothing practised players can't already do without it.

Comon man, you don't even have tier ten. The closest you've got is Ibuki, which is known to be rubbish at present. I foresee much pain in your future, given how the Senjo is even worse for it's tier. Play bad ships, expect bad gameplay.

I'm with you on this, I'm having a hard time seeing a difference to before.

This has always been the case in my experience, it's always been about what exactly your cursor is touching than anything else. If your cursor touches the mountain, it aims for the mountain, if it touches the sea behind it, it aims for the sea behind it. Is this what you're talking about?

So if I think you're wrong about the fundamentals then I'm just a yesman? Convenient for you. Wrong. You haven't even used an american CA, you've only used the pitiful IJN ones. Sort of thing that gets fixed with time, WOT was worse at this point. Only bad CA players die so easily, firstly. There is an issue with AA personal rewards, but shooting down planes contributes to protecting the BB's which contributes to the victory, so it's not as if there's no reward. You don't need to be close to get great damage on a BB with a CA, especially Amagi. For someone who plays cruisers quite well, I'd say your problems are grounded in the fact you're playing Jap Cruisers, not US ones. You've only actually played the Cleveland and everyone knows at this point that IJN Cruisers are floating pre-wrecks by comparison. CV's are not useless. I don't know what to say to you on this, because it's so bloody obvious. Manual torp bombing is ludicrously strong and actually impossible to dodge. The best BB player is going to take two torps per run at least from even a half competent CV. And CV's have more revamps and uses incoming too, like armour piercing bombs. As for CA getting popped first, you're doing it wrong if you're dying first. You just are. My guess would be that you still think your torpedoes are any use in an engagement with a BB and you keep trying to get in range to use them. herp derp there's no tactics herp derp. No game in it's right mind is going to make CA's so invulnerable they can survive focus fire. Sorry but that's just a fact. Focus fire is rare anyway, players are nearly never that coordinated, they tend to go after the easiest targets to hit and CA's are not the easiest nor the most important targets. Which supports my theory you're too aggressive in your torp use. Why am I not surprised you find an engagement where you have no counter except other cruisers funner. BB use has nose dived already, just so you know. Initially it was nothing but BB's and in the alpha the only BB's people wanted to play were Fuso, people get sick of the RNG nonsense before long. We're only a month into beta and your expectations are bloody impossible. As for tactics and fundamentals, I'm not sure what these fundamentals you're referring to that I constantly spout are. But there are tactics in the game, there is awareness of the things you can do and cannot do, there is positioning, there is immunity zones, there is ranges it's very difficult to hit significantly a CA where the CA remains combat capable. And when anything you say about class roles and tactics is actually true I'll be right there with you. Did you know that although Jap Cruisers are utter trash now, that they were far better at killing BB's before the CBT patch than any other class? One singular change was made. They lost the long lances. I was devastated, because before CBT I was wrecking it up with Ibuki. I prefer Cruisers to BB's at the end of the day, which is why I know what I do and I'm not changing that position. The reason I told you this is because one single change completely altered the paradigm of the game, a third of it's meta gutted. But for some reason you seem to think it's too late in the development process to make significant alterations to gameplay. ''Either way, another point that people took issue with was my complaint that the only thing you do in the game is leading targets. To be very brief - and again, comparing with World of Tanks - in WoT, you outplay someone by shooting them while they can't (or won't) effectively shoot you back. There are basically two main ways of doing that, namely by a) using the terrain against them (such as by flanking them or using gun depression to your advantage) and b) abusing spotting mechanics. Neither is much of a thing in Warships. If you can shoot someone of the same class as you, they can almost always shoot you back, so the entire thing is mostly reduced to DPM Racing: the Game, but with a very significant amount of RNG added in. This is why battleships are so dominant in the metagame right now: they're simply better at DPM racing than anything else (except maybe the Cleveland, which is sort of absurd if it can get into range). Making co-op more significant could possibly fix this. Maybe.'' I can't use another quote block apparently. A very simplistic and vague interpretation of the game but one I can't entirely argue with. I would call it more a clever characterisation than a real critique, because it ignores what depth there is in the game regarding dodging and mitigating, which you've never accepted actually exists and I've maintained from the beginning you never will until you up your game.

You're the only one who said it was about speed. Others have shown that speed doesn't deviate as little as you would have thought reading your posts. Your analysis on the speed is fine, except for the fact that you've put too much importance on it and that's why I found it tickled me. Actually the amour has no point part tickled me the most seeing as it's the most ludicrous part of your critique but it was so off-hand and spare of the moment I didn't put the thought in how to present it, let alone explain it. I haven't needed to shift my goalposts the entire thread, really. Your analysis remains exactly as I said, either wrong or misunderstanding.