conductiv

....its used in a example where a guy is asking for BB's to be completely immune to CA's because he counters them..I come back with the claim that a DD can kill a CA and as such the triangle isn't absolute...and your conclusion is that I have trouble dealing with DDs?! Its the same as me saying that that guy has trouble with CA's..... he obviously doesn't have a problem with shooting them he just hates it that they (the CA's) can shoot him (in a BB) and actually damage him. maybe I have to be more specific and use **example** tags for people that have trouble differing between the description of a actual problem and a example used to clarify a point... I thought it was pretty obvious with the immunity field comment at the bottom.

Even before the HE shell change, when you escorted a BB in a cruiser you where going to get shelled first. CA's just die quicker and are easier to citadel. so they are better for the E-peen points. being dangerous has almost nothing to do with it.

They are supposed to be less effective on BBs, BB's should not be immune. this means that any class is capable of damaging and killing any other class, despite the fact that you have a dis- or advantage fighting them. otherwise the same deal can be said about cruisers fighting DD's, destroyers too are small and fast and capable burning down a cruiser or even instantly blow it up with torps. and even more so about the battleships capability to blow destroyers out of the water and shoot airplanes, in the absolute triangle..airplanes, carriers and destroyers should have some magic force field around them making them immune to battleship shells and AA

having played cruisers for quite a bit I have noticed that I have citadel hit and received citadel hits in pretty much all classes in the game, save 1...now I don't know if I've just been unlucky, or that this class is just immune to citadel hits. -cruiser vs. cruiser..happens all the time -cruiser vs battleship...rare but you can citadel hit them if the gun is strong enough..battleships are better suited for this though -cruiser vs aircraft carrier, the citadel is located a bit high on the ship for most of them -cruiser vs destroyer...I can't honestly say I ever got a citadel hit ribbon from hitting a destroyer, with other destroyers, cruisers or battleships. nor can I remember receiving the "heavy damage" message after anything other then a torpedo hit when playing a destroyer. is it possible to citadel hit destroyers? do they even have a citadel to hit?

what is already possible and happening? the supporting bit?...yes people do play support by protecting BB's or trying to get air superiority, and its often those people that come here asking why their support is not rewarded. or actually demanding that it should be rewarded by more then just winning the fight. now I do get what he's going for, and like I said I agree with the majority of its claims...but I'm also very cynical..I expect the community to behave at its worst and be selfish, I expect that the moment supporting becomes the way to quick exp that people will hog it. and that the second the game is "all chiefs no indians" they will moan trying to get others to do the "less optimal" jobs so they can reap the rewards.

first of all its not a nublet question as its asked all the time by players with hundreds of games played, the description isn't all that optimal. it increases the amount of time the gun needs to load (so if it had a 30 second reload it would now have a 33 second reload) and it increases the turret traverse speed (so if it took 40 seconds to turn 180 degrees it now takes 34 instead) so it decreases DPM (by increasing the time needed to load the gun) and increases aiming speed (by decreasing the time needed for the turret to traverse) edit: second question: its not yet possible to accelerate crew training to my knowledge.

ehhh admiral...all the enemy battleships are not impressed by my allied battleship...instead they are trying to shoot me, and mine is not a lone wolf but a coyote...it keeps running off the second a enemy looks at it..... or the second it sees a CV. I get the idea but it goes awry so often...unless the BB player is platooned with me its a 7 out of 10 bad idea.

it has up and downsides, people do what is rewarded, so this needs to strike a balance...supporting is great and all that, but as soon as supporting gives even a trickle more exp and credits then the actual fight you will see people hogging that function. massive teams and bonus rewards on winning is great, but it generally also means people will exclude friends that are simply not that good at the game. arbitairy lines of "you have to be at least this good before you can join us" will come. On top of that, a match where a well known good team faces a smaller team of people that recognize them, will result in insta-bails. the other way around will also occur, you will have people that want to play the game but their friends are currently otherwise occupied. if large teams are commonplace and you are basically a filler having to listen to some random armchair general that is going to blame you for every failure during the game...will right out cause him to hold back until the majority of his friends are around..and even then its questionable he will even stay with the game for long. people don't mind discussing tactics with friends, but they are a whole lot less inclined to take orders from random joe just because he won the match leader poll. I get what you are going at and I actually agree with the majority of your comments, but I do see the reasoning behind a few of the imposed limitations.

I did not get that impression about your fighter claim part, it seemed like you felt that DD's hunting CV's had a easy time ("almost like cheating") and fighters with bombs would change that. while I agree with the statement I underlined, keep in mind that in many threads I read they are stated to be "next to useless" or "downright pathetic" or with other implications that they are extremely bad. having a BB gun as a backup weapon is still better then not having a backup atoll

+1 and agreed, I have fired close to 1000 torpedo's and I've only hit a ally once because I was greedy, and even on high tiers I have to dodge friendly torps all the time. it really isn't that hard to ensure no allies are in the torpedo's path.

depends, dive bombers are currently not well known for their damage potential...but one of the first things I read is: this means people expect the fighter bombs to be effective on something, and not be a "when all else fails they can do something" option like IJN destroyer guns are... many would instantly call the function useless if it wasn't effective on destroyers if these bombs are close to or as effective as a DB's you can compare this to a destroyer getting the entire armament of a cleveland and hence take over the cruiser function. but if it remains less effective they will quickly compare them to IJN DD guns, they are on there...but next to useless anyway. so I do feel there is a serious risk of "function threading" here. the bolded part is also important... besides showing that you too expect them to be effective DD killers, DD's currently have very weak AA..its rarely enough to take down a plane if it just hovers above you chasing you around and messing up the camo even when the AA is fully upgraded. hence people feel the AA upgrades are useless, it just won't down any planes. How does making them a better target make the "AA that can't shoot down planes" any better then the additional cannon? especially if the damage and accuracy these fighters would have would be effective enough to protect carriers from destroyers.

that is interesting, as a closed beta player of world of tanks I played the game while the 248mm range penetration was the best penetration you could basically have without having to spend money (I'm lying..... ISU was already in the game I just never played it back then). and I always favored mediums by a massive degree, even when their lines stopped at tier 8. this wasn't because mediums where better, the consistency comes from being able to bring your weapons to bear where they are needed. the medium and light hype really caught on later when the tier 10 mediums came around and where used like lights in clanwars (but heavies still form the brunt there), and when the tier 8 "combat light" (AMX-13-90) came around for the tier 8 maximum tournaments (using a light there is basically using a tier 9...as they have the tier 9 gun balance with vastly improved camouflage and speed, but even then the T8 HT was around up to the point the tournament model changed from single to multi-cap point) the fun dropped a lot when you feel like you are gimping yourself when you are not using the 300mm range penetration premium shells and spamming everyone in the face with it. never became a gold spammer...but it just felt like I was deliberately gimping myself by playing with standard AP or using "old" vehicles like the pantherII (the beta panther), and the VK series. nowadays I hardly play it...if the penetration drop is significant enough my tanking frequency might increase again...

generally BB's have a longer range then a cruiser...generally, there are a few exceptions. they also have more HP and significantly thicker armor to prevent CA's from getting AP citadel hits on them. to top it off they generally...come with a far superior secondary set of weapons, so if the guy has no, or just discharged its torpedo's the BB can initiate a close range fight. on range the BB's guns are the biggest around, and while not extremely accurate and fast they hit like a truck when properly aimed..so from a BB's perspective its trying to get the opponent on the sweet range where he is accurate enough to maul the cruiser or destroyer...and either to far out to get hit by anything extremely dangerous (like torpedo's) or..if that threat isn't present, so close that the enemy feels every single gun on the ship while being practically helpless to stop it. the CV is the BB's "counter" class, they have planes that can close in and deliver the counter ammo the torpedo without having to sail through a gauntlet of shells, and even if the run fails the CV is in no mortal danger...but he can run out of planes, so rest assured any attempt would be well considered. The DD can use stealth or ambush to close in and use torps as well, but many battleships are only a few knots slower and getting hit is practically a death sentence for a destroyer. the DD at least has the option to use smoke to cover the escape after attempting a torpedo run cruisers can fire at the battleship from a safer range, using HE to get some damage past the armor...but even that requires some evasion as catching a BB's heavy punch can quickly sink the cruiser..mostly only requiring 3-4 citadel hits to sink, while the battleship requires 30-40 hits and fires to die because its almost impossible to citadel. if the cruiser has torpedo's it can try to close the range...but as they lack stealth, this is a road of no return..the cruiser either kills the battleship with the torpedo run...or he is dead. As a battleship, you counter cruisers...a single cruiser needs to do some hard work to bring down a battleship, they are not fast enough to reliably dodge BB shots in the sweetspot, have a citadel spot BB AP can readily hit and penetrate for monster damage and don't have stealth options to readily escape or approach. all they can do is dance outside of the sweetspot spamming HE...hoping they last long enough for you to burn down. battleships are the only ships that can engage each other with AP rounds for massive damage from halfway across the map being big enough to hit at extreme range for each other, and being the only class that has enough punch in the AP to get reliable citadel hits.

I faithfully build all my IJN cruisers with full AA setups, when fully upgraded they make for okay AA platforms. but they will be beaten by the USN cruisers on that front due to having less AA guns to boost. secondaries...not really worth it for a cruiser of any nation. simply due to the lack of secondaries and their limited power. this is viable on battleships only main guns...always worth it on cruisers, even though I didn't notice any difference with the + accuracy, the gun rotation skill adds a tiny boost on all 203mm guns and god knows if the current fire mechanics will stay effective, as that will greatly affect the viability of pyromania and HE ammo. all other boosts that affect this group require a sacrifice one to boost the other aspect. torpedos: IJN being the only cruiser group currently able to develop this across tiers, though it does not have a tier 4 support skill to back it up it does have the tier 2 to reduce the reload time. the viability is questionable as well, as the cruiser is not the best platform to spam torpedos on and aim speed is rarely a issue, something most upgrades in this group tend to focus on. mix-n-match, maybe this is the best way to go. picking the biggest boosts without much drawbacks in other groups.

I read this and I keep asking myself "why would aircraft carriers aircraft be given the ability to be more effective against AA fire?" what would AA be good for if the one class it should work on...would get units with a ability to counter it... fighters having the ability to engage surface ships, okay...but bullets aren't exactly effective against armored ships. and even on the scale of destroyers they are rather small. and when you give them bombs etc you thread on the dive bombers area of expertise. so I get the idea for some sort of status effect...but with just secondaries it would be practically useless, including AA seems off and including the main battery just wouldn't make sense.

I hope it never gets here, why because XVM seems to ruin more things that it improves. namecalling when your stats are low, people suiciding when the chances are poor, people targeting you when your stats are high, people over-depending on others that have better stats. stat whoring (once they figure out the mechanics about what raises the fictional stat most). now it is supposed to be a tool to tell you how well you are doing, you can do that just fine with the stats provided by WG at the moment. maybe compare it to a friends list of such..but any more then that and we are going to have some massive E-peen d*ck waving around with all the added problems that entails.

the assumption is that it does what it states on the can...how effective it actually is in the game you can only really figure out with a recording, a stopwatch, a stats sheet a stopwatch or any combination of the aforementioned some notable examples are the fire control upgrades 1 1. increases accuracy...but by how much is anyone's guess, I didn't notice any real difference the damage control upgrade, a very popular one 1. reduces the chance of flooding by 3% and the chance of fire by 5%...does this mean you are now immune to fire from many US DD's and the atlanta with their 5% fire chance HE shells? and how much chance does a torp have to flood someone?!...I dunno... the ones that state a + to 2 things where one is obviously supposed to be a penalty are sometimes confusing +reload time and +aiming time should mean that both take longer to do, but its obvious that at least 1 of them should be a buff otherwise no sane person would every buy the bloody thing.

is this is a mid-low tier problem? or a problem with the 152-155mm range guns? I have been playing a lot of battles lately (7-9 tier range, cruisers mainly) and I can't say that I have favored HE by extreme amounts, nor that its ignition range is much more then a 1:10 rate...the majority of my games have 1000-3000 points of fire damage tops. with very few hitting the dazzling heights of 20K+ where a enemy BB literally burns out. nor have I been on the receiving end of extreme fires, while I do get a LOT of HE slung at me and I do catch fire quite a lot. the DPS is often small and I can either clicky it away immediately or shortly after, very rarely have I been chain ignited at such frequency that I had to endure a full duration, and the times I did it was because I was fighting a battle with multiple enemies at once (not favorable in a cruiser) what I did notice is the very acceptable damage HE does on impact on battleships...with center mass of the superstructure 10-203mm-shots-hit-vollies on the amigi going as high as 10K+fire+a secondary KO'd. HE is definitely my favorite ammo against battleships but not because it ignites them but because it deals 2-3 times as much damage per hit on the bloody thing (and I don't have to get into face hugging range to use it..like I have to do with torps)

ehh...yeah I got that part already, but I did mean something more in the lines of.... size and location of the sweetspot, do fires insta-stack if hit multiple times, does it require penetration, does this sweet-spot maximize the shells damage.... all very crucial information...citadel hits don't add a status effect per-se,but can damage modules and can cause fires (with AP) it has the highest shell damage potential and the fact that it deals massive damage with unreliable status effect application makes the repair-crew near useless to prevent its impact. its downside is however that it requires penetration of the almost always most armored part of the ship near the waterline, making it a small and hard to get target in most cases. now the HE sweetspot you name can be big or small, require a penetration or a surface hit, deal lots or hardly any damage besides its reliable status effect application. size makes it more or less reliable as its status effect has to bypass the repair-crew clicky to be effective.

its just weird that you have no idea that almost half the points you list are actually the right moves for destroyers..while you assume they are the worst possible. 1. no battleship and very few cruisers ever go for a center cap point, they always go for the cap points on the edges. that's because they don't have a thing called stealth to get there and not turn into swiss cheese 2. vision is a weird thing...like in WoT, vision is extended when allies spot things for you..you can shoot a DD spotted by a allied DD 10KM in front of you...hiding in smoke or not. while you remain invisible as long as the cloud is between you, all your ally has to worry about is the white haze effect. a haze...its not a gem floating in white soup like WoTs spot through bushes, the ship becomes fully visible. so basically putting a cloud between your allies and enemies isn't all that bad, provided you stay in it to spot enemies. 5. well yeah, as a DD you can get closer and actually hit the torp rather then spam them from max range..if the main weapon was something like...a cannon...things might be different for a destroyer. any destroyer spamming torpedo's from behind the BB battleline would be troublesome.

really, so if you get blown up its the other guys fault as he didn't follow you into the middle of nowhere? where the hell did this logic come from... if you are alone, you did something wrong..its not the cruisers fault.

initial 2, the game started with soviet and german, USA was added gradually during the beta...french..shortly after?..I dunno exactly the first 4 nations came out pretty quickly though, as did expansions to the then existing nations (notably the E line and the extension from the medium and TD lines to 9 rather then their initial tier 8 max) it took a very long time after that before the brits where added, and the japanese/chinese lines havn't even been completed years after their release..and as it seems they will never be completed either.

how would you imagine this works? its hard to judge a idea...or comment on it...if the information given is so scarse.

its a secondary nick that I have used for decades when I cannot use my primary, its origin is rather daft though had a class about what affected the conductivity of various metals and carbon-chains as well as heat transfer between layers during a high school physics class...the name box I tried to fit "conductivity" in had a 9 character limit and I thought "what do I care".....and hence another mis-spelled nickname was born

I'm fine with taking point when a DD is causing problems..love playing my cruisers...but I'm not sailing into that cloud of death, I'll be on the edge. and as soon as more then DD shells are coming from that cloud..I'm zig-zagging away