conductiv

I guess you are pretty spot on, I generally use my destroyers early game to cap open positions in domination battles (this can often be combined with scouting, and open positions are hard for the enemy to approach without getting walloped by the team that is still moving to their initial positions.), and late game to cap the enemy base in a encounter or normal battle...being hard to spot (due to the ability to set up a smoke screen if the enemy is about to get into detection range) makes it very difficult to get them on the bases without getting too close and catching a spread of torps in the face. downside is that the enemy is likely to do the same thing, as such you will often find yourself in a DD vs DD fight, with occasional BB or CA lobbing in shells from the side line. there is a lot to keep track of...planes flying too close can uncover your position...or worse..add more chaos by dropping bombs/torps, in the DD vs DD fight that people are shelling into from all sides..allied and enemy torps can fill the water pretty quickly (as you will see allies trying to help out...they can accidentally hit you with plane/ship dropped torps) if I survive past the early frantic fights...I generally try to assist the most allied heavy side against any slow ships (generally BBs), while I love to attack isolated enemies its often hard to get to them as they are often...in the middle of flipping nowhere...taking the more risky approach by attacking a enemy BB strong area (usually 2 or 3) pays off better for me....provided they are not in the middle of an open area, I need some cover to approach. -because I'm often closer..saves me travel time -because they are more likely to be distracted with allies -if I manage to succesfully hammer one, it will likely slow down and become a sitting duck for allies. if I miss it will have to make awkward maneuvers making it harder for them to attack allies. so even though I gain no XP/credits from the misses..I'm likely to help out in some way. until now I only rarely use smoke to cover allies...because if I put it too close, they will just sail through it and have no benefit...put it too far and I'll just chase away the opponent (as they will avoid smoke..and will try to stay 7-8 KM away from it). so I generally just use it to the best of my abilities to shield fellow cappers. carrier hunting sounds fun, however in my experience its often a waste of time in higher tiers...its very hard to get close without being spotted by either a ship or plane and the second the carrier spots you it will sail off and force you to zigzag through its (desperate) attempts to bomb you (and most of them are 4-5 knots slower then you..making it really hard to catch up enough to torp them). it will keep the carrier out of the fight for a bit and spot him for the odd 20KM+ BB shot...but it keeps me out of the fight as well and his allies will start gunning me. keep in mind I'm no DD expert, but this is what I do with my DD's and I tried to explain the motivations as much as possible.

its a bit early to make decisions on those demographics...people gravitate towards the strong and the famous, but this takes some time. the closed beta is now ~2 weeks in

USN cruisers...4-6 and 10 seem to be okay (with 4 and 5 having short range torps) DPM wise 7-9 are sub par to the tier 6 (tier 8 being the worst, as it has the same guns as the tier 7, just less of them at a token RoF increase) the tier 6 is only beaten by the tier 10 in the main armament DPM department. (the T10 having 2.5 times the firepower of the tier 9 on paper) havn't played enough IJN cruisers to have a clear oppinion on them, but based on fighting them they seem to have long range torps at the cost of smaller guns and bigger "weakspots" (IJN cruisers seem to be the easiest to land citadel hits on)

knowing where it is is 1 thing, shooting it another. -as above it is the most armored, and ships tend to have layered armor, so you will have to get the least possible angle on the shot...or it will simply skim off (dealing less damage) -as seen in the picture above, the citadel tends to be in the lower part of the hull, so you will have to shoot near the waterline. due to the shot spread, you will get quite a number of shells hitting the water and doing...nothing -plunging fire works, unless it hits any appendages on top of the deck...like the command center, turrets etc...in my opinion, when trying to get plunging fire in, its extremely unreliable. for a video regarding citadel hits, try Ichase's AP vs HE video (4th episode)...while fairly shallow on the ammo debate, it does show you a few spots where you can get citadel hits. http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/7352-captains-academy-gameplay-guides-and-tips-latest-destroyers-and-torpedo-tips/

depends a bit on the battle strategy as well, the "sit way back and try to win a sniping competition" otherwise named "engage at maximum range until the battle is won" is pretty sure to result in a draw due to abysmal hit rates.

very nice job, I'm suprised there where no torpedo kills in there but I do see a very nice damage total for HE...that's almost 500 damage per HE shell on a 152mm and a very high "fire" rate of 1 fire for every 10 shots. ......that's a jaw dropping number for HE, so close to the AP valeus did you only fire HE at the carriers?

a battleship can land multiple citadel hits in 1 go...and the kill is instant..on top of that citadel hits deal insane damage on any target, being a total based on the caliber of the shell instead of the targets max HP. you can avoid torps, but eventually 1 will hit and the torp itself will already inflict insane damage, and torps have a high chance of applying a very strong debuff you can deal multiple fires, but its RNG, aiming skills have nothing to with it...and the DoT can be instantly removed with the repair crew..or out-repaired using the BB's self repair ability. 11% over 46 seconds is not a lot compared to single BB citadel hit that goes for 25% up to 80% instantly (leaving DD's that would just die out of the equation..and the 200 HE damage per shell)

from what I experienced in game, fire deals about 0,5% damage per tick and ticks every 2 seconds for 46 seconds. for a grand total of ~11,5% of max HP damage per fire. apart from a debuff on CV's fire seems to have no additional negative effects the ingame fire odds given by the shells seem to be off though...for most shells they are quite high (152mm has 12%, 203 has 15%) but practically the amount of fires that actually occur are way lower (they seem to be 30-50% lower then the amount stated on the statistics chart, even if every battle ship would use the damage control equipment and the bonus is applied additively the odds are low) on top of that, the first fire is often clicked away instantly by the damage repair crew. of course this is approximation so I might be off a couple of % flooding hits roughly twice as hard, has a higher probability of occurrence when the carrier shell hits and comes on a already very damaging carrier shell (torpedo, estimated to apply flooding effect in 30-35% of the hits) it also comes with a very potent debuff, cutting maximum speed in half for its duration. much like fire though, the first effect is often clicked away by the repair crew (and a second application is more likely to kill the ship with the torp damage then the flooding, as on average you would have to land 4 torps for 2 applications, ship torpedo's would have a high probability to kill the target outright in this quantity) if HE is supposed to make up its lack of damage by fires, it needs to apply that fire on a frequent basis, or be very potent..at least faster then the 90 second cool-down of the repair crew. (and it has to work for the full 46 seconds to deal its damage), it being a % of max HP effect makes it more effective on high tier BB's (or at least any ship with lots of HP), but keep in mind these have besides the repair crew a triple-use-self-repair ability that repairs ~15-25% of their max HP every 120? seconds. basically giving them a double fire counter another note I did notice when doing a "damage mission" is that fire and flooding DoT damage is not shown in the after battle report (as the damage from the mission and the actual damage in the after battle report differed by almost 10K...with the damage mission being higher) apologies for hijacking the thread though.. I really do like the discussion

you didn't, and your suggestion was a good one. I did because the AP vs HE discussion is a bit tied into the high AP preference nowadays....much like in WoT where AP outperforms HE by a mile and only a few very select guns can use HE effectively. its such a pitty to have 2 ammo types with 1 being practically useless in gameplay terms HE has a fire chance for a reason (I hope), I would expect fire DoT damage to (at least partially) make up for its damage deficiency.

very well played, I must say that I expected something like 9-12 torp hits and 4 overall fires when I read the claim "HE game only", but only 4 torp hits (though that is something like 40K damage right there) and 14!! fires....NICE...pitty its over ~200 hits and half of them would have been insta-fixed with the clicky...but still...7 fires for ~10-15% damage of whatever they where torching..its a tier 4 game so 20-30K HP targets..thats 14-21K "burning" damage provided the fire didn't kill anyone or none was killed while on fire. checking if the listed fire chance is correct. 14 fires, 198 hits is 1:14, kuma HE shell fire chance is 9% listed, its still a bit low on the curve (but wayyy higher then my experience), according to math..the rate should have been ~1:8 to get a >50% chance of these kind of games. this means that on average 198 hits should have given 24 or 25 fires, getting 14 or below would be in 73% of the cases. this indicates that either you have been very unlucky with the fires...or the fire chance is indeed a bit off if you don't mind me asking, what was the total damage inflicted by the HE ammo?

oh I wish you where right...but.. the fire chance is a lie when it comes to BB's, I tried it on both the omaha and the cleveland and you just won't get reliable fires on a BB, math with the given numbers states it should (12 152mm hits should yield a 78% chance of a fire, ~58% with the damage control equipment on the target)...but it doesn't, experience shows a fire every 20 or so hits....thats the difference between having a fire every other volly or having a fire every 4-5 vollies (assuming 40-50% of the shots connect) destroying petty modules like secondairy guns and AA...ships have 20-50 of those guns on board in the higher tiers...on top of that the repair speed of them is better then critical modules like the engine. its questionable if the CV will even notice the support. yup, torpedo's caused 90% of that damage right..and HE was used to burn a lone CV. now you could change my mind by showing me a awesome and recent game using HE ammo only AP is simply more effective when it comes to dealing damage (this is not just me speaking, its parroted from every single guide on these forums I have read so far. and experience confirms the claim) all you have to do is hit the hull as much to the center as possible...prevent hitting the extreme edges and any appendages. and oddly enough HE deals pathetic damage on the "bad spots to hit with AP" as well. division buddy claimed the same thing, however the higher tier CV's don't seem particularity resistant to fires compared to the lower tiers. however, engaging BB's is a lot more common then engaging high tier CVs so my "experience pool" on that is smaller.

already watched the lot...kept tabs on them from the moment I entered the beta 2 weeks ago.

for you...well get more games, below 100 games its a flipping lottery...in WoT you need 2K games before anyone takes your overall WR serious for me wins will come when I get the hang of the game. no really I'm terrible at the moment, even though I sink the occasional ship (I'm getting close to 1 per game on average), good things for me to focus on would be "how to hit a DD for more then 150 dmg from 10KM out without eating a torp in the process" and "how not to end up in a 1v5 slugging match with half the enemy team because.... I was supporting BB doofus that wasted 15 minutes of my time sailing circles in the middle of nowhere /or/ I gave up on supporting people and struck out on my own" and some projects that would keep me in the game longer -how to roast a BB like a steak...effective pyromania... -the above..but add torps for that sinking feeling.. -flak the skies with panic..see more planes drop dead or fly useless circles... preferably before they drop their load on me or my team. aka more effective AA placements or "how to mess up the enemy CV's plans the best possible way"

fair enough, but the damage model should change anyway, currently there is fairly little reason to use HE.. -the given fire odds are bull (otherwise BB's would cause a fire on practically any HE volly...they don't..the only ships that seem unusually vulnerable to fire are CV's but BB's and CA's seem unusually resistant...aka its not unusual that you have to hit a BB 50 times to get 2 fires while the gun has a 11% fire chance. while oddly enough, a CV goes up in 1 volly...are those things primed with gasoline or something?) -HE deals pathetic damage even on citadel hits (~1K VS 3,5K with the 203mm on top of being far more reliable to land) -base damage hits are lower (500-1000 for AP, 300-500 for HE) -HE seems to "break" mostly non critical modules (AA guns, secondairy guns, torp launchers..engine and rutter practically only on DDs) while at a lower frequency, AP outright destroys primary modules (turrets) -over-penetration mechanics seem defunct

my experience so far is that if you hit the hull between the front and rear turret locations you usually get a good damage number with AP, hit the superstructure..(any of the "exhause pipes", guns, rangefinders, life boats or "command huts") the damage seems to be pathetic. citadel hits are always awesome, but nowhere near as reliable to get as i'd wish.

..we are only 2 weeks into what I expect to be about 6 months of closed and open beta test..(based on WoT CBT experience) there is really no need to beg for free stuff.

so far I have heard "foundered", "blown up" and "sunk"...but that just captains-talk-fluff

a single spread of torps is easy to avoid, but sometimes it seems like torpedo's are being chucked at you from every possible direction. it becomes extra confusing if you have allies nearby that also let go of their torps (and they are not very careful with regards to allied ships) few games back...2 DD's or CA's that dumped them in the water like candy in huge spreads..easy to avoid but they did have a 10km or so range, and then the 2 enemy CV's started dumping torps in there as well from the other direction...(trying to bomb a allied BB that was dodging the enemy DD spread) trying to cap a base in my DD, run into a enemy DD, that gets support from enemy CV and I get aid from an allied "torpedoboat"...and the water is suddenly full of torps that can 1-shot me....in about a minute, my 12 torps, 6 torps from my ally, 6 torps from enemy DD and 12 from the enemy CV where sailing through the water

also stay away from the map edge and keep allies close enough that they can support but far enough away that you don't run into them and then also stay close enough to any critical zone that you can help out. now...combine all that and you are going to run into something, (allies, islands or torpedo's...or any combination of them)...or be the useless BB on my team that sits all the way back unable to help out for 80% of the game (...that I just picked to support...and got really annoyed about is that I always end up supporting the most passive BB's on my team.)

CV has a advantage over a lone BB, they are about as fast and the CV can attack it with the torp bombers...no BB currently in the game is fast enough to escape cross-torping. or has enough AA on its own to cause significant casualties on a squadron however if in the late game its a lone CV against a BB covered by 2 cruisers that focus on their AA batteries...the CV is at a disadvantage. as unlike a SPG, planes can be shot down and " panic" when the cruiser uses its "AA-burst" skill..basically ensuring a miss and additional dead aircraft. and aircraft are limited..a high tier carrier only have about a 100 of them (~ 24 in the air on 4 squadrons) and a single cruiser can ...when the CV ignores them...wipe out 10 quite quickly. a pack of them...2-3 can wipe out 25% of your overall force in 1 go a CV is about as fast and agile as a BB, is unlikely to die on 1 shot and can manage its planes quite accurately while sailing away...so its nothing like a lone SPG against a enemy heavy tank. they arn't as powerful as a SPG offensively...but a lot more flexible, they can scout for themselves, they can bypass most cover by changing the planes approach.

on that note, could you post a couple of screenies where to hit a kongo with cruiser fire to citadel it, its a bloody common ship and citadel hits on them with my cruiser seem to be rather rare (currently I aim midship near waterline as perpendicular as possible with my cruisers)

St. Louis seems to be remarkably difficult to citadel, as the citadel seems to be further to the back of the ship then usual..

as I've seen in game, citadel hits aren't that easy to get....but you are right about the range and class that is most likely to catch those citadel hits cruisers are by far the most vulnerable to citadel hits with flimsy armor, meh speed and a good size target to shoot at, it seems to be hard to get through a BB's belt armor to score one, and DD's just seem to be too small and agile to get reliable citadel hits on...CV's are generally out of combat, and seem to have their citadel on odd locations....but are "relatively easy" to citadel if you get them in your crosshairs beyond 10-11KM the game seems to favor plunging fire...this oddly enough does cause the occasional citadel hit...but is more likely to hit the superstructure for poor to marginal damage totals , at 7-8KM and closer you can get reliable citadel hits with AP if the enemy is perpendicular to you and the shots are going almost straight in...angle seems to mess up the shots as well. DD's with AP are unlikely to score citadel hits, cruisers and battleships with AP seem to have a significantly easier time scoring them. even piont blank (<5km) and perpendicular..the fact that you have to hit close to the waterline pretty much ensures that half or less of the shots will hit the citadel (even though on a full volly thats 3-5 of them and will deal massive damage if not outright destroy the enemy ship)

you are not the only one that is wondering if this is even possible at the moment

its a "what am I fighting scenario" against BB's and other CA's you want the ability to strike first and remain unseen untill you do. but against DD's its more important to see them before they get into their effective strike range looking at it from the ability to land the first strike...I guess being harder to spot is better, as the enemy will be a KM closer making your first shot more likely to connect. after firing, you will be spotted anyway. but when engaging DD's you want to keep them out of their effective strike range...about 7KM...that 10% extra vision might just help you avoid a spread of torpedo's by being able to keep the DD at arms length