conductiv

how do stacking fires work? a single fire is no more then a nuisance, but stacked fires and flooding can indeed deal insane damage. flooding though doesn't stack..while fire seems to erupt on different area's on the ship..like the ship is divided in various sectors that can be lit up individually. and what ship where you sailing, as 1K even for triple fire should come down to around 75K HP total you mean highly flammable feul 12% - 5% (assuming additive function) from the damage control equipment/module, fire chance seems to be affected by the hit location as well, meaning that hits on the hull have a lower chance of lighting targets on fire relative to taking hits in the control towers, deck or torpedo bays. this indirectly means that BB's are still more resistant then CV's as CV's have more deck...or more precisely..less superstructure=less effective incendiary effect

if you are trying to reply to me (something I assume as I'm the only one that made the 1:40 comment) you should notice the words "pre-patch" and read the entire thing. they did indeed increase HE penetration and damage, in this case I'm going to assume the hard hitting HE on battleships is mainly because of the increased base damage. while I have yet to notice a 1:4 ratio..and I have played a lot of games in my cruisers. I do feel our opinions are not that far apart, if you read the entire post, you should have noticed I made a claim regarding the rather high DPS HE spam currently has. thank you and have a +1, and yes they are my observations..tried to get better numbers before the bloody patch and made 3 topics regarding the fire and HE ammo subject...but alas no real response

I can go along with a HE damage drop, but the fire chances should stay as is. finally HE is useful. pre-patch, you could shoot HE all game and get 1 fire every 40 or so hits.....if they shot at anything other then a CV..and that one would be instantly doused..on top of that the shell did fecal matter for damage and only broke the occasional AA gun. no wonder nobody used it. now the shells deal decent to even good damage, fire chances are relevant (cruisers get fires close to 1:10..that is their 16% chance of the 203mm guns minus the oft used damage control module) if doused..re-lighting is often done quickly enough. so focusing yourself on burning enemies works...and because of the increased damage you can even go full HE spam without sacrificing extreme amounts of damage per hit. the module damage effect hasn't really changed, it still tends to break secondary modules on the target ship. currently we have gone to far to the extreme other end of the spectrum, HE should in my eyes be the ammo that sacrifices damage per shot for status effects and module damage. the fire chance is good...but spamming it should...even with the fire...yield a lower DPS then spamming AP (unless the HE can penetrate the target just like AP can) on a side note: I would really like to have a training room in the beta so we can test out HE ammo on various modules, get a better view on how much damage fire does and if its tied to any particular location..and how the fire prevention modules and skills work...the lack of a in-game training room is quite frustrating.

maneuverability of BB's has definitely improved, a 5KM drop in the front arc is no longer a guaranteed hit, this means I have to get even closer to ensure hits I like using torpedoes to deal with battleships, currently BB's are the backbone of any game so the ability to remove one fast is a great asset. however torpedoes have always been somewhat troublesome to use effectively. in my experience: -torpedo effectiveness drops a low when not launched broadside or in the front arc of the target ship....as when the target moves away, the hit rate plummets. -I feel its mostly useful to use the different vollies to make multiple narrow spreads, to make it harder to duck between the spreads, but this reduces the amount of torpedo's that actually connect (as 1 volly is used in case he goes full speed ahead, and the other in anticipation of him turning in) I only really use wide spreads if I'm on piont blank broadside (roughly 3KM) -launching from far away..( in this case this is at 10-7KM) is safer, but also very ineffective with 6-8 torps per spread as there will be massive gaps between the torps and the enemy will have more time to "accidentally" avoid torps by changing course early. -launching up close increases the striking odds, but also the odds of getting mauled. this generally means I get real close for 1-4 torpedo hits at massive personal risk, the other option would be... stay far away and "spray and pray" torps.

+/- the damage they deal is now at least relevant compared to AP shots, however HE shells where never about dealing direct HP damage (in this game)... also a jump from the old ~200-300 range to ~500-700 (and significantly higher in the above examples, 11K HE shell hits with a BB is extreme) range for medium caliber guns is a bit extreme. as it starts threading into the penetrating AP shell range damage. +the fire chance is closer to the listed stats, its no longer a 1:40 meaning that you can actually "double light" people to force them to take damage from the fire. the fire damage is still pathetic at ~0.5% every 2 seconds for 45 seconds but at least its relevant. its incendiary function is now at least passable -module damage inflicted is still mainly irrelevant as it tends to hit AA and secondary guns, even when aimed directly at the enemy main battery. due to the sheer number of these extra guns on ships, knocking them out does not give a significant benefit both ammo types have to be viable, I like it that they buffed HE...but HE should not out-perform AP ammo in raw damage per shot (unless the target is extremely flimsy, over-penetration and all that) against flimsy targets, HE should inflict massive module damage (engine, rutter, main cannons, and torp armament should go down very quick) on top of okay damage..on well armored targets, its damage should be low, but the incendiary effect should pester the enemy

I have heard plinking noises indicating bounces and whatnot, and more very low damage numbers popping up when using AP on various targets. AP is however, still the most reliable way of getting massive damage citadel hits. It just seems to be more hit-and miss then it used to be. I have also noticed a serious increase in HE usefulness as its fire frequency seems to have gone up, even though fire damage does not seem to be as reliable anymore. (still need to test this more thoroughly, but it seems HE has finally become useful on targets other then carriers) torpedo damage seems to have gone up, as if torpedo's "max out" far more often then they used to do (this from the side of a person launching the torpedo's) oddly enough, the sweet spot for torpedo hits has moved from the center of the enemy ship more to the bow or stern. keep in mind the patch is brand new and its only my observations of 1 day..we will get a better picture in a couple of weeks.

I haven't experienced any 1 shots (as in 1 shot that kills the enemy...not the BB that catches 5 torps in 1 go, or a cruiser getting triple citadel hit by a BB volly) but I did read the magazine explosion medal being awarded once (as in someone on the other end of the map probably went..kaboom..)

I wonder if HE is now from "practically useless" to "somewhat useful" level of impact, or if this is some "post patch whine about HE that proves to be completely misplaced in 2 weeks" I welcome having 2 viable main battery ammunition choices, even if one sacrifices damage for status effects...as long as the status ailments actually matter and can be placed at a decent rate (rather then the pre-patch average of 30 shots dealing pathetic damage with 15% fire chance only to have it instantly extinguished once it did finally trigger) but the patch is still new, so we should see in time.

as long as the actual mechanics are unknown, we can't even agree on that. (additive or multiplicative) and we can't even do a controlled test without screwing somebody else over. if its multiplicative its a skill not even worth 1 piont, as even 1 piont skills give flat +10% bonuses. but from what I've tested and experienced, the whole fire mechanic is wonky, some ships seem to be extremely susceptible to fires, while the majority seems to be extremely resistant. fire and module damage at the cost of "HP" damage seems to be a good trade, but at the moment its just not worth it. HE ammo generally inflicts a lot of non-essential module damage (yay, knocked out another of the 40+ AA guns on the ship), deals pathetic damage (often 30% or less from a well aimed AP), and even the fire status effect is instantly recovered, and if not still deals meager damage (~15% of the targets HP in damage if allowed to burn its full duration) there are exceptions, CV's can't use their main weapon while on fire and seem to be unusually receptive to fires (if every ship was as prone to catching fires as the CV, HE would actually be a semi- viable ammo to engage BB's for the smaller ship classes), and DD's seem to lose rutter and/or engine quite often while spammed losing their mobility advantage. the "advantage" is still questionable though..as a DD can be 1 shot and the CV can be killed extremely fast with AP (due to their generally very large citadel spots, and already quite slow main weapon)

1:20 is the expected value...when you apply math the expected value generally has a above 50% chance of causing the desired effect. (in this case 64.15%) this does not mean it happens all the time..hell even with loads of shots the odds never hit 100%. its practical math that can be used to quickly gauge the viability of a property also practical maths can be applied on experience, when you have 200 hits in the game with said ammo..and only 3 or 4 fires it doesn't seem like the odds where actually 1:20...unless you where exceedingly unlucky. (you can calculate the odds of this guy being extremely unlucky by stating he's in the X% of people getting shafted, but you get the drift) because for you its 1:70-1:50..and that's nowhere close to 1:20. like you did, the OP assumed the bonus is additive (5% base +5% pyro..making a total of 10%) he then shoots a target 40 times and gets no fire this would give him a 98,52% chance to get a fire according to maths, so he would be in the 1,5% of people getting shafted, even with the damaged prevention equipment working the same way as the pyro skill (basically cancelling each other out) he would still have a 87.15% chance of causing fire. so the OP is right...he was either extremely unlucky, or.... -the listed fire chances are wrong (possible and likely...but most likely in combination with the one below) -the listed fire chances only apply when a condition is met (target class X, hit zone Y..any single or combination of limiting factors this is extremely likely, as it seems CV's are more susceptible to HE spam) -the perk is bugged (well basic fire chances already fail to add up even without pyro..so I doubt this is the case) the lack of a training room frustrates controlled tests with HE ammo and fire chances, unless you willingly want to ruin peoples games in a Co-op battle or random there is currently no way of fine tuning the numbers.

amplification or addition. if pyromania is a amplificative factor its practically useless, as all the ships that get a benefit out of lighting stuff on fire have relatively low chances of lighting stuff on fire (203mm has a 15% fire chance and that is one of the biggest cruiser based guns currently in the game) so it being 15.75% doesn't make any difference. if its additive..its value is a whole lot better 15% is a ~1:7 fire chance, 20% is 1:5. same for the defensive skills/equipment having a -5% or -7% chance of getting lit up has a whole lot more value when its additive rather then multiplicative. however, fire chances have always been rather low...having tried several games with 203mm guns the base chances of lighting people on fire are ludicrously low. while the game lists 15% (1:7 or 1:10 depending if the target has the damage control equipment and it works in the most favorable way for him.) its more likely you will have to hit 20+ times to get a single fire, that will be instantly doused by the repair crew. Needless this is nowhere near the listed fire chances, and renders HE as a "incendiary" ammo completely useless (as it takes way too much time to get the target lit up, and you are already sacrificing damage per shot because you are not using AP) I'm ignoring the fire prevention tier 5 skill, as its very unlikely everyone trains that one first and even more unlikely that the majority of players in this game have it in the middle tiers edit: location seems to have some effect on it, but most of all ship type..CV's are very likely to catch fire when HE spammed. while any other ship seems extremely resistant.

still trying to figure out the best use of the HE shell, I do feel that AP is always useful, no matter the class you are shooting at or the caliber of your gun. since AP deals great damage, the HE use depends on its infliction of module damage (breaking key modules like the main battery, torpedo tubes, rutter and/or engine) its ability to cause fire (% HP draining status effect..so would be more useful on high HP ships) or reliability of damage (basically if it is more likely to inflict decent damage over a larger area of the target ship...rather then massive damage when aimed well like AP has, the main reason why its advised against DDs)

wait what we have training rooms already in the game??! if so I must have missed them edit: I can't find them...any pointers where I should be looking?

how many DD rounds do you need to light a BB on fire? can you show me a couple of screenies? because all testing I did with DD's shows that their chances of lighting anything other then a carrier on fire is somewhere between nihil and nothing despite boasting a so called 5% chance. this makes it hard for me to believe someone would actually take the time to try and light a BB on fire before or after launching torpedo's

quick question on module damage, does the repair counter reset if a module is hit again during the repair time? I haven't noticed it happening ever in my ~500 games. and with the recent realization that some ships are practically immune to citadel hits (this means I can't hit important stuff like the engine or magazines as they are apparently below the water line), I'm thinking about knocking out the next important thing...the main battery guns to create a "safe" zone. now I don't rely on their destruction..since that is rampant now with the 0-armor-bug, I would like to know if I can rely on keeping them jammed if I hit them with HE

as I understand it...the current counter cycle is DD kills CV (ship-launched-torpedo, bypasses CV's heavy AA and fighters with a fast difficult to hit and pin down platform) CA kills DD (guns, HE or AP, basically bigger and badder guns on platforms agile enough to dodge torpedo's from a fairly short distance) BB kills CA (guns and armor, BB's winning card is its massive damage per hit and ability to survive repeated poundings with smaller guns) CV kills BB (air-dropped-torpedo, partially bypasses the problem ships have when closing in to a BB and exploits its weakness for torpedo's) now every class can kill every class, but the counter should have to do something real stupid/get insanely unlucky to get killed by its prey. as the platform and weapon loadout favors that specific target. CA generally out DPM destroyers, have enough HP to take a single torp if need be but can avoid most torp attacks up to 5KM range completely. this makes them reasonably forgiving when engaging DDs. their mid caliber guns are very effective against other cruisers and CV's should they get within striking distance.. the only thing the cruiser can't directly out-gun is the battleship. but as the lines are currently set up...firepower or survivability can be sacrificed to acquire torpedo's (IJN line). this allows a cruiser...if he survives to get close enough without the aid of stealth or the smoke screen...to take on BB's in a 1 on 1 fight now a BB can get shot, by either a LOT of cruisers/destroyers or another BB. it can get torped by anything that manages to get close enough to exploit its clumbsy movement (and has torps, this makes DD's a sort of soft counter) but the BB's loadout makes it the king of the gunfights and 1 on 1 just shooting with a CA or DD..is going to and should get the it* killed *including DPM monsters like the cleveland

progress per battle is quite fast, but keep in mind the battles last roughly 3 times as long as a standard WoT match...while the XP rewards are roughly doubled. (average survival duration in WoT is close to 4,5 minutes, in WoWS 12 minutes and above is common) personally I hope progression stays roughly the same...would hate to have to play hunderds of battles to move from tier 8 to 9 in a game where every battle lasts 3 times as long. (for equivalent time investment, I currently "played" 285 wot games in the orleans to get the baltimore. while in absolute games it is 95.) the credit economy is more forgiving at the moment, or I'm adequate at ships already. because I'm running a profit on tier 8. while tier 8 WoT would run negative unless you are a well above average player.

that is good to know, because getting instantly blown up would indeed make all the firepower useless

whats so bad about the mogami? I have yet to get it..but with 15 155mm guns, and 6 rounds per minute...I'd say thats a lot of metal in the air, on paper it even beats the cleveland in DPM. the 203mm seems a downgrade with 4 RoF and 10 guns...but its otherwise (gun comparably) on par with the pensecola. edit: Takeda92, on 18 April 2015 - 06:57 PM, said: I'm not sure about pepsicola being tier 6 with Aoba without any nerfs. 10 203mm vs 6 203mm, better AA, and ofc course anything has a better citadel than a Japanese cruiser. Cleveland is comparable to the 155mm Mogami, while cola to the 203mm Mogami. Both of them would tier 7 fine. WG just need to find a replacement for USN tier 6 alpha strike wise the Aoba would be slightly behind, but its got a high 203mm RoF..5,5 rounds P/min instead of pensecola's 4.

well having all the stuff unlocked (random battles, crew, free exp generation etc.) would be handy...but not required for a good start (provided the game economy remains as is), it might even be worse. it will take only a few battles (20-50) to get to rank 6 anyway. and it will be even quicker for those with premium (as the ranking up was..as far as I know.. experience based.) the first few captain skills will be acquired in no time..and re-unlocking the ranks gives some nice bonuses (3K free exp takes some time to grind, and is a very potent reward..as is the + credits per rank and triple missions to kick-start the economy)

what exactly is the armor patch going to change? because either the armor on most ships is already working, or taking down ships with anything other then torps is going to take ages

cleveland is a great gunship...no doubt about it...makes the pensecola and new orleans look stupid. in my 1 game with the Aoba...knocked out a battleship, a destroyer and a opposing cruiser (a cleveland by coincidence) extremely fast. then lost the slugging match with the second cleveland...(had to happen eventually) I raised an eyebrow looking at the stats... 6 203mm guns with 5,5 RoF, 2X4 torpedotubes that deal 17K damage per torp (rear end launchers). gun firepower wise the Aoba isn't far behind, and with the added torps its "alpha damage" capability is downright insane. the guns also come with a very high muzzle velocity...makes hitting stuff a lot easier then with the 140mm gun on the kuma. but the turret traverse is similar to that of battleships. so if the cleveland gets nerfed, the OP spot is likely to move to the Aoba...because like you said..it packs one hell of a punch edit: nope, did the math, and actually gun wise the Aoba is beaten by every single USN cruiser tier 5 and above...the cleveland is close to twice as strong in a straight up gunfight....only shows that 1 match isn't all that good to base the opinion on.

another bug, a ghost island in the "glacial" map on the south side near the C cap in domination mode. it will block shells (causing them to explode mid-air), torps etc and beach you (you will get the warning) but it looks like open water

tier 6-9 (as my top tier is 9 atm), I'm not seeing too many aircraft carriers for my AA cruisers to chew on. when the AA got a buff, their numbers suddenly plummeted. and while the number of destroyers increased for a bit..its already going down again. I do however see a load of battleships...so I'm switching to IJN cruisers to torp those meatbags if they try to start a slugging match with me. while sacrificing a bit of AA and gun-power. keep in mind that the only way to really deal with BBs is to torp them or trade with them in a BB, you can shoot them with AP in a CA...but that is very time consuming and very risky (aka more likely to get you killed rather then the BB target).. so it would be a bit odd if BB's would get extra protection against torps and aircraft . about torps well, I use ship launched torps a lot...and while they do pack a punch, the hit-rate isn't that good as the enemy will frequently dodge them, even the least agile ships about...carriers and battleships. keep in mind that most torps are just barely 2 times faster then a ship...so if a ship is 5KM out, it will take close to a minute from launch to hit and the target will have moved about 2,5 KM before the torps arrive...and in those 2,5KM/1 minute..it can slow down, accelerate or turn..all these actions can make a spread miss completely. and 5 KM is very close...launching from further away will increase the dodge window..as the space between torps will get bigger, the time it needs to get there will be longer..and the chance of "accidental" dodging increases. Air dropped torps, well I haven't played carriers yet.

currently still looking into the viability of HE ammo, and hoping its better then the HE ammo available in WG's flagship game WoT. in order to do that, I played a few games "HE only" the results where ...well ...pretty pathetic when compared to the typical "AP only" game. but damage aside, the thing I noticed most was the severe lack of fires on any ship class but the aircraft carrier. so I'm thinking that most ships have a hidden protection against fire, in order to see that..I would like some help of the community by posting screenshots of games where they used HE shells..but did not engage a carrier. name of the ship used and any possible perks that affect fire chances (like pyromania) would be greatly appreciated. the second thing I wanted to see is the "critical strike rate" of the HE shell, while probably based on where the shell lands on the enemy ship..the screenshot provided should give a indication as to how "damaging" a HE shell actually is against modules. edit: in order to give WG some feedback, my personal experiments with HE ammo show that the ammo could use some love. -damage proves poor, even on targets that generally get over-penetrated by AP and where HE is the recommended ammo -fire chance seems lower then advertised against all but the CV ( roughly 1/4th of listed) -critical damage rate seems low (20% or so rate of breaking modules..(thunderbolt insignia))