Vaderan

Last but not least, there is still the possibility of both players being related to each other in some way, may it be clan or friends, and they ended up facing each other instead of being part of the same team. When it came down to them, they might have made up for an agreement behind the scenes, for whatever reason. There is just too much space for speculation on this one, without screenshots or replay...

While Nagato is one of my favourite "standard" ships, it just won´t train your captain or make the cash a Scharnhorst will do ;)

It depends on your favourite/actual techtree. Hood will for sure be a suitable captains trainer for British BBs, but Warspite is even more iconic and has a place in the brandnew operations. Scharnhorst lacks Hood´s punch but appears to be by far more versatile. I´ll stick with the Scharnhorst...

The most versatile ship to me appeared to be the (buffed) Nürnberg with B hull. The rate of fire is great to deal with soft targets, which are the major problem on missions where you either have to prevent them to reach your defensive perimeter (harbor defense) or stop them from torpedo runs on objectives you have to escort, while the torpedoes can deal with BBs. It´s AAA is too weak though to deal with the CVs you will meet. Clevelend and Aoba appear to be usefull aswell, the first for her HE spam and AAA, the later for her heavy hitting 8" guns, torpedoes and sturdiness, if angled. BBs, while they can shine in their role as tanks, greatly suffer from their RNG. In an enviroment where every single shot counts, BB dispersion can be the nail in your coffin to fail a secondary objective or even loose the operation. My favourite might be the Fuso, due to its versatility, lots of guns and huge range. Warspite might be a good choice as a BB counter, since the 15" guns can hurt, were 14" fail, and she is more accurate than the Bayern. Maybe even a Texas might come in handy, thanks to it´s AAA abilities. Between cruisers and BBs, the Graf Spee might turn out to be the Jack of all trades, or a waste of a slot. We will find out. DDs... no idea, i lack experience with them. A friend who tested them, said that different from regular CoOp games, player controlled DDs are not the instant primary target for the AI, when detected, so there might be some space for DDs to perform as gunboats aswell. Last but not least, a well played carrier (tier 6) appears to be mandatory for each team.

Players, no matter their skills, will always develope their own playstyle, resulting out of what they are given and what they experience during their playtime. Some will learn and evolve faster than others, some will never even bother about improving. Others will just try to copy others, without any understanding. WG has tried several times to influence or change players behaviour, and as every bad teacher does, they tried it with punishment. Punishment in terms of nerfs. Nerfs to ships, nerfs on complete classes, nerfs on economy and income for playing in a style WG doesn´t feel suited or wanted for a class. It could be just so simple to change player behaviour. Average players mostly don´t know about nerfs or mechanc changes. They just take things as given. What average players recognize, are rewards. They are like children or pets. Give em a reward for behaving nice and fine, and they will try to obtain that reward again. Playing supportive and as a teamplayer needs to be rewarded. In terms of economy and fun/achievements during actual gameplay. Players love the feeling of success and rewards, like scoring torpedoe hits or citadells. WG needs to exploit this wish for rewards. Not to exploit the fear for punishment, like in siberian prison camps. Punished players will never be happy/satisfied players, but those, always good for uprising and protest.

Vieles ist eine Frage der Routine. Gewisse Mechaniken müssen Dir zunächst in Fleisch und Blut übergehen. Ein großer Fehler, den viele (schlechte) Spieler machen: sie glauben, dass der Misserfolg/die Fehlerquote in ihrem Spiel am (Lowtier) Schiff liegt, ein neues, höhertieriges Schiff also automatisch eine Verbesserung ihrer Spielleistung bringen wird. DAS IST FALSCH! Mit jedem Tier werden Schiffseigenheiten ausgeprägter, Schiffe im Spielstil anspruchsvoller, gegnerische Spieler unter Umständen erfahrener und Matchabläufe komplexer. Tier 4 ist eines der letzten Tiers mit "Welpenschutz" für neue Spieler. Ab Tier 5 kann man in Gefechten auch schnell mal auf alte Hasen treffen. Ab tier 6 können Flugzeugträger ihre Torpedos und Bomben "manuell" abwerfen, dadurch werden gute Trägerspieler die Reaktionszeiten für ihre Ziele drastisch reduzieren und ihren Schadensoutput maximieren. Mit anderen Worten: bleibe im Lowtier Bereich (bis Tier 4) möglichst lange, teste verschiedene Klassen und Nationen. Sehr beliebt sind Schlachtschiffe (BBs), die sich aber in diesem Bereich überwiegend noch sehr dürftig spielen. Wenn Du mit Deiner Trefferausbeute bei den Lowtier BBs unzufrieden bist, gewöhn Dich dran, es wird später nicht viel besser (wobei es natürlich Ausnahmen gibt). Zum erfolgreichen Spielen gehört zusätzlich auch ein wenig Basisverständnis zur Munitionswahl (HE oder AP), sowie zur Positionierung des Schiffes. Breitseite zum Gegner ist in der Regel schlecht. Stehen bleiben ohne Deckung (oder Nebel) kann auch tödlich enden. Also: besser angewinkelt zum Gegner "stehen" und stets versuchen, ein möglichst schweres Ziel darzustellen. Eine Faustregel sollte sein: versuche, mit Deinem Team im Verband zu fahren. Mehr Schiffe bieten mehr Ziele und richten mehr Geschütze auf den Gegner. Versuche, Dich auf das/die Hauptziele Deines Teams zu konzentrieren, und biete Dein Schiff als mögliches Ziel an, ohne Dich als "Fokusziel" in den Vordergrund zu begeben. Gerade Schlachtschifffahrer neigen dazu, die lange Reichweite ihrer Geschütze zu nutzen, um weiche Einheiten wie Kreuzer und Zerstörer vor sich als "Meatshields" zu opfern, um selbst Schaden zu vermeiden. Oft stehen diese dann später ohne Team da und verlieren das Spiel. Stelle dich als Schlachtschiff daher "kalkuliert" als Ziel zur Verfügung, aber pass auf, dass Du irgendwann nicht alleine auf weiter See stehst. Hier ist die Beobachtung der Minikarte elementar. Es gäbe noch viel mehr zu sagen, aber für den Anfang sollte dies (und die Hilfestellung anderer Posts) schonmal eine Grundlage bilden. Da Du ja ein selbstreflektierender Spieler bist, der sich verbessern möchte, hast Du schonmal die richtige Grundeinstellung. Es kann sich auch empfehlen, weiterhin ein wenig CoOp zu spielen. (rechts neben dem "Battle!" Knopf von Zufallsgefecht auf CoOp umstellen). Hier kannst Du Deine Schiffssteuerung verfeinern, Schiffe kennenlernen (und XP/credits sammeln) und auch Kartenbeobachtung trainieren. Bots "spielen" sehr vorhersehbar, sind aber auch sehr genau in der Anwendung von Geschützen und Torpedos, so dass Du auch hier noch einiges in Sachen Selbstschutz lernen kannst, ohne gleich in 1 vs 12 Situationen zu landen.

Ich sehe Nelson auch auf Tier 7, als Premium Schiff. Sie passt dort einfach in Sachen Bewaffnung, Speed und Panzerung am besten hin, zwischen Nagato und Colorado. Betrachtet man WGs herangehensweise in der Vergangenheit (Kalibersteigerung), wäre alles andere auch nicht logisch. So würde sich nämlich folgender Tree anbieten: T6: Iron Duke Klasse (14"), Warspite Premium T7: KGV Klasse (14"), Nelson Premium T8: Vanguard (15") T9: Lion (16") Alternativ hätte man sonst, würde WG seiner Linie treu bleiben wollen, wiefolgt vorgehen müssen: T6: Queen Elisabeth/R-Klasse T7: Hood/Renown Klasse T8: Vanguard/Nelson/G-3 T9: Lion Oder aber: T6: Queen Elisabeth, Warspite Premium T7: Nelson, KGV Premium T8: G3 Blueprint T9: Lion Option 1 scheint mir die eleganteste Lösung...

Die KGV hat das Potential, das ausgewogenste Schlachtschiff auf Tier 7 zu werden. Ich bin ja mal gespannt, welchen Spielstil WG ihr zuschreiben wird. Ich tippe auf Radarunterstützung und Hauptbatterie basiertes Brawling, zum einen, um die BB-Meta wenigstens ein Stückchen mehr vom "Campen" wegzubekommen, zum anderen aber auch wegen der Masse der Geschütze, den relativ kompakten Abmessungen und der Panzerung.

The Bismarck may unlock it´s full potential only with a 14+ points captain, build/skilled to make maximum use of it´s very strong secondary armament. So you will, at least, have the captains perk for advanced firing training 2 (20% additional range) and manual secondary armament controll (massive accuracy buff) taken, aswell as the secondary guns range upgrade module installed. This will provide you with the very much hated 10+ km secondary armament range, which is (in my eyes) a must have and the way to play this ship. Range sweetspot is between 10,6 and 8km range. Different build might work aswell, but since the Bismarck is a dedicated brawler, you might want to make the most of it. Staying at range and pretending to be a sniper won´t work out with this ship...

The MM decides the team setup. The rest is you and RNG. Your average damage with your Bismarck indicates, that you are doing something wrong (or have incredibly bad luck with RNG). What´s your "standard" engagement distance with your Bismarck? Do you run a secondary build? Always check first, where you might have space for improvement, before blaiming others...

WG implementiert Techtree Schiffe in der Regel nach dem Muster, dass die Kalibergrößen stetig wachsen, sich aber nicht wider verkleinern. Das soll die Spielerschaft nicht überfordern. Prominentestes Beispiel ist derzeit wohl die Deutsche Gneisenau auf Tier 7, die ja, historisch korrekt, nur 28er hatte, und der Umbau auf 38er lediglich geplant war. Deshalb kam Scharnhorst ja als Premium Schiff, die sie kalibermäßig "aus der Reihe tanzt". Sofern WG dieser Linie treu bleibt, kann es nur eine logische Entwicklung im GB tree geben: Tier 6: Iron Duke mit 10x 14"; Tier 7: KGV mit 10x 14"; Tier 8: Vanguard mit 8x15", dann Lion und Papierschiff. Warspite bleibt tier 6 Premium, Nelson wird tier 7 Premium, wo sie sich zwischen Nagato und Colorado bei den langsamen "heavy hittern" einreiht. Langsam, aber große Kanonen...

WG usually has a consequent line in how ships develope within the tiers as regular tech tree units: gun calibres only get bigger, never smaller. At tier VI, we already have the Warspite (which is, of course, a premium ship). With KGV and 14" at tier 7, Vanguard (with 15") at 8, Lion (16") at 9 and "Conqueror" papership at tier 10, the Iron Duke class would be the most logical addition for tier 6 as a regular tree ship, with Nelson placed at tier 7 for a premium BB, since Premium BBs are allowed to go against the "increasing calibre" rule. That´s at least my theory...

Isn´t Admiral Marakov spekulated to be a reward ship? Not obtainable for money? Besides ranked, tier 6 will also be the max tier for the upcoming operations mode, which provides better rewards than CoOp. So, maybe, tier 6 ships (as top tiers for this mode so far) will see a rebirth with this mode aswell...

Are we discussing your conclusions of my profile, or my suggestions how to improve the game? On the other hand, considering your very narrow minded resumé of my stats, it´s not obvious we have to deal with very narrow minded, medicore reactions and solution from your person (no offense intended, if taken, though). Fun fact: if i am a that bad/ medicore player with just a fraction of your expertise and experience, and if we take a look at our top 3 ships we got in common: Gremy, Tirpitz, Sims, why do you not skyrocket with better stats? Yes, of course, because i got just what? 9 games in the Sims. But even with no experience in this DD, no skills, no trained captain and with that low count of battles, i performed better in average than you, with all your wisdom? Better don´t break it down to statistics...go and look for something that supports your position. Refering to memes won´t do, lacking of arguments won´t do, coming around with "haha, that guy doesn´t know the range of a Mogami" won´t do. The reason why i stopped at tier 8 is simple: no point in advancing further. I play testservers rather excessive, and even if it might not provide the "wisdom" of thousands of battles, it provides enough experience of how ships basically play, and wether they are worth it, or not. On the other hand, this doesn´t lead to anything. No matter how "sound" my suggestions are, in the end, the short sighted lobbyists will always try to find something against them, even if it´s just some poor distraction. So, feel free to breed or laugh or analyse about my statistics, while the adults return to discuss, how the current ingame situation can be improved. If you have something to contribute, maybe a solution, feel free to join the party...

If it´s 16km, then Mogami has how much time to react, if it really engages at 16km? 10 seconds? 12? Even if it´s just 8 seconds, If it keeps sayling in a straight line for that time, it might deserve to get deleted, don´t you agree? At least, that´s what anybody would say, if BB players complain about getting deleted by long range torpedoes... Considering torpedo spread: yes, they open gaps. Ships with just one launcher, launching at max range, will leave space to evade (most of) the spread. Several launchers with crossed torpedoes at medium to short range? Not really. Last but not least: my profile should be open, i got nothing to hide. Feel free to browse. When done, come back with good arguments :-) https://worldofwarships.eu/de/community/accounts/500043152-Vaderan/!/pvp/overview/

Sorry, but it is exactly players like you, representatives of the "everything that does not buff my favourite class or provides a buff for a different class is bad and need to be stopped" lobby, who are the burden of this game. Sitting on a horse, way "higher" than the one you accuse me to ride on, blind of recognizing your attitude, or simply ignoring it. Commentary on other posts are often reduced to some smilies/emojies and some between the line reading like "you are dumb, i know better". At least, if someone is not of your opinion. You demand more proof or evidence, but basically lack any of those in your posts either. Instead of telling me, sitting on your high horse, that my opinion is wrong, i am dumb and unexperienced, although my theory "is sound", how about trying to be a little bit more constructive. Descent your horse, climb up to me and show explain to me the obvious flaws in my theory, that makes you still say "no", without further, sound information. That would probably help me (and others) understand your wisdom. By the way, statements like "but my precious DD could be instakilled" don´t count. Because that´s just DD-baby instead of "BB-baby". Since you are an alpha tester, and at least an expert in sealclubbing with OP ships like Nikolaj and Gremy, i suspect a basic understanding of shell trajectories, flight time and spread. What´s the air time of your Nikolajs shells at 10-12km range? 1 second? I guess not. 8-10, maybe 12 seconds? Enough time for an aware and nimble light cruiser or even DD to adjust the course and dodge all or most of your shells, avoiding instant annihilation, i dare to claim. In addition, i assume you might have some above average marksmanship skills. You even own a Yubari, which is possibly the most accurate ship in the game. Tell, me, do you hit every single salvo? Do you have an 80% or even 100% hitratio, so you can tell from experience, that accurate BBs would instakill anything with every shot they fire? No, you don´t. You have 33% accuracy/hit ratio with these very accurate guns. I got 35%, not that much better. Oh, and while we are on my "lack" of experience: considering the fact i got roughly 20% of your games, lacking especially the high tiers and big guns you own, my stats look pretty decent, i dare to claim aswell. But back to those 35% hit ratio. Taking this into account, even those accurate BBs guns would result in 2/3 of BB shells still missing, while the last third still seperates into bounces, overpens, penetrations and citadells. Not too much of a thread, i dare to say. The main difference between what we got now, and what we would get with better accuracy: these days, it´s pure RNG. With that change: skill > RNG. Today, evasion maneuvres are meaningless, and BB-snipers always can rely on their spread to score the magic hit. Trained players are punished, passive and bad players are rewarded. With better accuracy, hit ratio and damage done in average wouldn´t probably even change, because for each salvo an above average marksman hits, he still will miss several others, by missjudgment, bad aim or evasion skills of the target. But this time, the player screws himself (or gets outplayed by an even better player) and not just screwed by a flawed game mechanic. Patato players would miss even more often. Even more important, a change for more accuracy will set a change in mindset in motion. These days, BB-patatoes camp because they KNOW they can always hope for that magic hit, provided by RNG. If this is removed, if campers recognize they fail again and again in long range sniping, they will sooner or later figure out they have to stay with the fleet and close the distance to the target. In addition, some of them will become frustrated, missing their shots, waiting 30 seconds, missing again, and will probably switch to other classes, reducing the BB overpopulation aswell. Even more, while don´t hitting anything at range, those campers might find a more skillfull BB player at the enemy team. That player, better accuracy given, will now have a chance to "snipe" that camper, removing it from the enemy team more quickly. A lesson for the camper, a nice reward for the active BB player. These days, BBs focus on DDs and cruisers because RNG promises better results and they are at closer range, slightly more probable to hit. Firing at a camping BB, even if it is standing still, is basically pointless, thanks to shell spread. However, a frontcamping BB will think twice, wether it will serve as a targeting practice, when simply camping and receiving AB/HE salvo after salvo. Making camping unattractive will immediatly lead to a less stationary, more active gameplay, which automatically opens for new maneuvres and opportunities. This will serve to all players, not just BBs. That´s why i say: give better accuracy not just to BBs, but to all classes. Even a Yamato will get moving, if a Mogami in Range will land 10+ 155mm HE shells every few seconds. Right now, BB camping is popular, because it means security and survival for BBs, while still dishing out damage, thanks to lucky spreads. More RNG will turn this around. Camping BBs will become stationary targets (= damage magnets) while utterly failing to hit moving targets on long range. They would be ripped of by both aspects that make camping attractive: security and lucky hits. So, now feel free to provide some wisdom or theories (or even evidence), why my suggestion is flawed or even bad. A simple facepalm-smily or "because i am better than you" won´t count. And please forgive my simple writing, english is not my mothertongue. So, keep it simple ;)

Wrong. Camping started, when (average) BB players figured out, that RNG ruins their shots, no matter the distance to the target. The difference in spread improvement froma 20km range target to a 5km target is very small. Shells still scatter at will. RNG > Skill. However, while BBs have to fear no harm at "sniping" range, every kilometer closer to the target makes them more vulnerable. So, BB players have the choice: stay on range, sacrifice others for lucky hits and stay in game as long as possible to accumulate damage, or move in, expose to HE spam and torpedo soup, get deserted by supporting teammates and die within a few minutes, still relying on RNG. The logic conclusion: stay out of harms way. Thats what average BB players do. Do i like it? No! Do i support it? No. But, even i had to learn: if i push in any of my BBs (even Bismarck/Tirpitz), i get removed from the table pretty quickly. The reason for that: too much faith in RNGesus and betrayed in the end. There is just no point for a BB, to fullfill it´s (supposed) roll as a tank, since the tradeoff isn´t worth it. That´s a fact, that´s the truth. Player behaviour shows this in almost any battle. WG already changed "reward" mechanics, but it didn´t change anything. Players rather sacrifice progress and reward, than their ships. Of course, this truth is nothing that DD/cruiser lobbyists want to hear, despite even accept. They just see the thrad of being harmed by accurate BB fire, completly ignoring the fact, that maybe 80% of BB players completly rely on RNG and it´s lucky hits. Without that RNG, evasive maneuvres would become much more valuable for cruisers and DDs, and the demands on marksman skills, especially at long ranges, would increase drastically, forcing BBs to close the range, where cruisers and DDs can return fire and launch torpedos. But that´s the next fact: DDs and cruisers want BBs within their gun ranges, but please, just as cashcows, not with guns that can return fire reliably... Considering CVs: they are the most skill depending class in the game. Up from tier 6, when manual drops are unlocked, skill makes the difference between fail and domination. That´s the reason, why so many players consider CVs broken: because they lack skill and the ability, to manage their squadrons and/or manual drops. Skilled CV players can be the instant end of any vessel, especially when it is without AAA support. That´s why the good CV players rather speak of "farming damage" than complaining about CVs. CVs aren´t dead, they just lack competent players. And exactly this needs to happen to BBs. They have to be changed in a way, that skill > rng/luck. If campers and patato players miss all their shots, because they lack skills in aiming and leading shots, while on the other hand receiving dead accurate AP salvos from skilled BBs, BBs in general and sniping in particular will loose in attraction. Players will either desert the BB class, or try their luck on shorter ranges, where BBs belong (and where they still have to make a stand against other BBs). In my opinion, this is the only way, how BBs and the broken meta can be reworked, and how quick and nimble ships can get back their advantage by dodging BB salvos...

The issue with that is RNG. For the BB, as for the DD. BB tomatoes/campers (whatever you might call them) rely on that RNG. It scatters their salvoes over a large area and allows for the usual "lucky hit", bad players seem to get much more often than good ones. Since bad players have less expectations on their personal performance (or even the success of their team), they are simply content with sending their shells across the map and waiting for the lucky shots. RNG screws up ambitious players, willing to tank and moving into the heat of battle, since they simply cannot rely on their weapons, especially when engaging well armored targets (like other BBs). Thanks to rng, shotgunning DDs still works pretty decent for BBs from time to time, but shotgunning BBs leads to useless overpens, bouncing shells and just an unsatisfiying number of valuable penetrations. That´s why BBs favour to shoot at less armored targets first. They are easier to penetrate and overpens do more % damage on smaller ships, than BBs. RNG screws up BB targets, especially cruisers and DDs. How? Because it makes evasive maneuvers so much more difficult. The huge shell spread covers so much of the target area, it is almost impossible to dodge them all, if the BB player had a rough idea, where it´s target would be moving. So, any Salvo of a BB can be anything between instant death or just a few hits. Anyways, it makes dodging and evasion skills as obsolete for DDs and cruisers, as it makes marksmanship for BBs. If all ships in general, or BBs in particular, had excellent accuracy, both skills would become much more valuable. Marksmanship and dodging. While the first would guarantee for better hits, the later one would guarantee better damage avoidance. In addition, long range sniping for BBs would become much less attractive. The chance of missing a complete salvo would increase drastically, damage numbers for camping BBs would drop drastically. In return, slow moving or even stationary targets would become much easier to hit with full salvos, which would turn BBs into very easy targets. BBs would need to decrease combat distance for better hit ratio and self defense. Camping "bow forward" while moving slowly or remaining stationary would cause immense damage income. BBs would need to move into close combat distance to make full use of their guns, making them very dangerous at medium to short distances with their strong guns, but in return very vulnerable to incoming shells and torpedoes aswell. Very good gun accuracy for all classes would drastically change the complete meta, making long range sniping very unattractive and moving engagement distances into medium to short range, a distance, where any class would have the arms to deliver deadly blows. Skills would matter, passive/inactive playstyle would be punished...

Auf max Range mit ner Nagato ist hoffentlich die Ausnahme. Sonst machst was falsch. Auf die Distanz bist Du RNG gnadenlos ausgeliefert. Bist Du zwar ohnehin, aber auf Range maximierst Du denn Effekt. Deutsche BBs haben sehr weitläufige Aufbauten, dan "verheddern" sich Deine Granaen auf Range, und generieren nur Overpens. Versuch Dein Glück zwischen 10-13km, gerade außerhalb der Reichweite ihrer Sekundärgeschütze. Das mögen die nicht, denn auf die Distanz lassen sich auch die Zitadellen treffen. Auf ~11km Range bekommt man selbst mit den 356ern der Tier 6 BBs die Zitadellen der Bismarck Klasse getroffen, sofern RNG Dir hold ist. Snipern in einem BB ist jedoch der falsche Ansatz...

Funny enough, we had a pretty big uprising against those overpriced exclusive bundles not too long ago. WG finally showed some insight and offered premium ships with and without bundles, so customers could choose, what ammount of money to spend. Now, WG comes around again with "bundles only" offers, and even dares to advertise them as something new and great and "wanted" by the playerbase. Yeah, obviously...

At ranges above 10-12 km, BB shells hit decks at an angle, where outobounce mechanics don´t apply anymore. Add shell normalisation to this, and unsurprisingly you end up at an range, where BB AP shells can penetrate through the decks into the citadell. In addition, shells hitting the side armor (maybe even the belt) aren´t "redirected" as much towards the space above a BBs citadell by shell normalisation, as are shells fired at shorter range, so they can still find a way through the ship into the citadell. At 11km + even german BBs with turtleback can be citadelled.

The challange is basically: try to achieve mission objectives while constantly outnumbered, fight against the odds of more or less able teammates, get screwed by rng and enjoy bots, cheating like no good, just to show you, what your ship would be able to, if it wouldn´t suffer from rng. The idea is nice, but more than anything else, this mode shows, how flawed the "balancing" mechanics in this game are...

Wäre er bei dem Matchup Toptier, die Frage wäre wohl nicht hier gelandet