Sunleader

I would actually Support a more Serious Report System. Which however would also have more Serious Reports and more Serious Consequences if Reports are obviously False. Given how many Players we got which are Openly Sabotaging the Team. And which likely will never get any remotely useful Punishment for it due to the fact that barely anyone will spend 30 minutes of Writing a Manual Report to Support just to get an Automatic Answer without ever seeing any Results. It would help alot of such Reports would actually have Consequences. Of course that also means if someone repeatedly makes False Reports on People which are not actually doing anything wrong than he himself should end up with the Consequences instead. Right now the Report System is basicly just a Button to Vent Frustration. So of course People will use it to Report Submarines and CVs which are causing them to be Frustrated. And of course it not having any Effect will result in them being even more Angry at WG. Its a Win Win Situation for Frustration after all ^^ Actually I wonder if this would maybe be a Nice Idea. Just implement a Specific Report Function for Test Ships. Allowing Players to Directly in Battle Send a Report on that Ships current Iteration being Good or Bad in their Eyes ^^ That way it would at least provide some useful Data on New Ships. ^^

Again. You are Showing a Picture of the Aircraft being Directly above the Submarine. Not even 100m away. And given the Shadow. The Aircraft is also Flying at extremely low Altitude. And again its also extremely Calm Sea. So Yeah. Picture is not Contradicting my Statement in the Slightest. Feel Free to Try again. Actually they did. And then everyone Cried "RABÄHHH MY BB CANT KILL SUBMARINES IN ENDGAME RABÄHHHH. IF I AM LAST WITH SUB I CANT KILL IT RABÄHHHHHHH" And WG thus gave ASW to all Classes. Then Subs of course were complete Rubbish and just got killed all the time. So WG Buffed them crazy. Yep. It seems you indeed are. You keep Repeating the same Rubbish I already debunked several times. Then try to somehow reference on differen interpretions and minor details to make your point seem Logical. Heck you cant even decide if you want to Argue on Realism or on the Game. Would be nice if you could just Admit you didnt read what I said properly. Then made a Claim that didnt make sense. And now sit in a Corner not wanting to Admit that you talked Bullcrab. Actually. You are Harder to Hit. Because as I explained. For a Sub to take Damage you dont need to hit Directly. It takes Splash Damage. And the BBs get an Instant available 360 Degree Weapon that doesnt need to be turned and Bombards an Area against Subs. Which doesnt work against DDs. So No. The DD is Harder to Hit. The Sub is Harder to Spot but only for a very limited time. Oh no Doubt about that. Thing is. The CV doesnt even need to Drop a Sub. He just needs to Spot it. Thats enough to get it killed very fast. Because BBs get Airstrikes on it. On the DD the CV actually does have to Drop it. And most DDs can in fact avoid that by using Smoke just like Subs can use their Dive Capacity. Well. On a DD you need to actually Hit lol More than enough really. Funny. Never heard of that Button. Mind Sharing it ? Because I have Doubts it exists. Happened to me several times. Did it to others several times. So yeah waht about it ? Which is pretty bad. And thing is. You dont have a choice. With 4-6 Minutes Capacity Tops. You cant exactly play your role. Except the DD has the Speed to Change position quickly. And the DD does not take Splash Damage and does not suffer from Area Covering Airdrops that Ignore any sort of Cover. He can handle such a Situation much better. Not sure why you think that Division would Protect him. I would just kill that Division First. But nice that we can Agree CVs are already OP anyways and can Crab on anything. So why Oppose at least having ONE class in the Game that can actually not be easily countered by CV ?

Yep. Meanwhile I already saw the First Person in Discord which Spend 50k Doubloons on Packages and got Rubbish. But thats not even the thing. I dont give a Crab what Adults do with their Money. This Game is Allowed for 12 Year Olds. 12 Year Olds !! And sorry. But 12 Year Olds should not be Visiting Casinos. Much less Reputable Casinos using Stacked Shemes like this.

Welche Geklaute ID ? Wargaming Alters Kontrolle besteht darin das du im Kästchen Anklickst das du 18 Bist. Das wars. Sobald du das gemacht hast kannst du Zuschlagen. Und da du auch Paysafekarten und allehand andere Methoden nutzen kannst für die du nicht 18 sein musst. Brauchst du nichtmals Papas Bankkarte klauen. Bargeld aus Papas Brieftasche im Kiosk gegen ne Paysafecard Tauschen reicht vollkommen. Besser noch. Du sagst Papa das du Doublonen haben möchtest fürn Schiff. Du brauchst garnicht zu erwähnen das du davon auch ins Casino gehen kannst. Ich mein was isn Casino überhaupt. Da sind soviele tolle sachen die man kriegen kann wenn man nur nen bisschen glück hat. Und wenn nicht probiert man es halt nochmal. Is doch nur Spielgeld.......

Well. 16 vs 20-30 Degrees. I think 16 is lower than 20-30 Degrees. So we now know that even at 1km the Submarine should still be Completely Invisible at Periscope Depth. Periscope Depth is Underwater. And no its not Transparent enough to See. Because the CV Aircraft are not Slow, Low Flying Spotter Aircraft for Patrol Missions. They are Strike Craft. They dont See the Ground below them. Their Cockpits are not made for it. They only see the Ground far away. Which means for them the Submarine is effectively Invisible. They could never possibly Spot it. They will become even worse if you guys Blockade WG from actually doing them Properly. The Result will be that they will be Insanely OP in the Long Run. So Desperate that you need to go for Semantics now are ya ? Strike Aircraft Cockpits are not made to look below them. They only see the Ground under them Hundreds of meters away. Hence the Submarine is Practically Invisible once its at Periscope Depth. Yeah. You are also 50% Faster (and more on some DDs) You either got Smoke, Heals or a different Damage Calculation that massively reduces the Damage you take. You get AA to Limit the Enemies Time the CV has above you. And unlike the Submarine. Hitting you actually requires Ships to turn their Guns towards you, Fire, and actually Hit you with Shells. While against the Submarine. They can Order Airstrikes which are almost Guaranteed to Hit because they cover an Area with Splash Damage. And in addition if someone shoots you. He doesnt actually need to hit you. Because you are affected by Splash Damage thus getting Damaged even by Near Misses. And even then. Any Good CV Player will still effectively take you out of the Game unless you basicly hide behind Allied Ships lol No Lottery Needed. Just a Brain. In case you didnt know that. Spawns are Mirrored. So if I see where my Sub Spawns. I know exactly where the Enemy Sub Spawns. And Since I can travel at nearly 200 Knots with my Planes. While the Sub does not even 30 Knots. I can be over there before the Submarine really goes anywhere from that Point. Meaning the only way it can avoid Detection is to Dive right away and waste its extremely Limited Dive Capacity. And Recharging that Dive Capacity is fairly Slow. Which means that it likely wont have Recharged what it used to evade me before I am flying over it again. Even less considering that it also would like to actually get in Range to use Torps. And doesnt have forever before its close to the Caps where some DDs for whatever Reason Outspot it on the Surface. So it has no choice but to basicly take the loss of Dive Capacity. Yes. Which is a Horrible Mechanic that I want Removed. Nice that we can at least Agree on this Mechanic being Rubbish and effectively making Submarines useless.

See Mate. If a Casino Opens across the Street and I see them Luring in 12 Year old Children with Flashy Colors and Confusing Gambling Shemes that Promote Gambling Addictions. Then it doesnt exactly matter if they Force me to go Inside. I will still Call the Police on them and get that Illegal Casino closed down. Thing of course is. WG is doing that because being an Online Game and using an Intermediate Currency they are currently in a Grey Area not yet Properly Regulated. Thus them still getting away with offering Gambling to Children. And Promoting Gambling Addictions to everyone because while not explicitly legal its also not yet explicitly illegal in most Countries as they have not yet passed Legislation on it. Just that I dont care about the Legislation. I care about the Moral Aspect. And this Moral Aspect is that Wargaming is effectively trying to lure Children into Gambling Addictions. For those not Realizing it. This new little Ponzy Sheme there is (who had guessed) another common Casino and Scammer Strategy. And this is even worse than what we had so far. Because you noticed. Yes I wrote Scammer Strategy there. Because this is Generally a Strategy used by less Reputable Casinos which want to offer even less Transparency than most Casinos (which already dont offer much) and thus Hide the Shemes behind more Convoluted and Complicated Stacking. They Stacked the Lotteries and made them Interdependent. This Allows them to Wave a Prize in Peoples Face without Risking that People actually get that Prize right away. Which means compared to the normal Lottery. They get an Additional Bait for People if they Draw a Good Price in one of the Lotteries. But then have to Play the Interdependent Lottery to actually get it. In the Case of the OP. He is Shown the T9 Premium Container. So he is now Heavily Incentivized to Try his Luck and Buy Lottery Tickets to actually get that T9 Premium Ship from his already Drawn Lottery Ticket. Welcome to Scammer Territory. Because we have Arrived at the Point where you are Literally getting the well known Scammer Email : You have Won Prize XY. Your are just a few Steps away from Collecting your Prize. Pls Participate in this Lottery and Win to receive your Prize. This is UTTERLY DISGUSTING.

Well. Pls Buy Lottery Tickets to get your T9 Premium Ship Lottery Ticket :) Its only 25.000 Doubloons. Which basicly means that just buying the Ship right away is actually Cheaper.... This is Hilarious. Guess WG realy Disliked that sometimes People can get Lucky and Draw a Ship on the First Package. Now need the Jackpot at lest 4 times (4x 30 Depot Tokens) and the Supernumber (The T9 Ship Container from the other Package) to actually have it xD Thats Genius. The Chances in WG Casino just went Down Tremendously xD

1. In Current Game Mechanics this means a Massive Buff to CVs. Because CVs are already Hardcountering every other Class anyways. If they now on top Counter Subs. They are once again the Top Dog against absolutely everything. Yeah No Thanks. Subs have no Counterplay against CVs either. Why should CVs have Counterplay against them ? 2. So we are once again at the Point. You dont Want Subs. Because you know you cant prevent them. You want them to be Useless. Thing is. They wont be Useless. WG will never Accept that. Hence they will be Buffed to the Level where they can Fight everything despite everything having ASW. Simple as that. 3. No they would not happen if not all Ships have ASW. Because WG Balances by Statistics. So if Subs Perform Fine without these Buffs. WG will not give these Buffs. But WG gave everyone ASW because People Cried. And then Subs SUCKED. So WG Buffed them. And WG will keep Buffing them till they work again. 4. I Agree that a Game does not Forcibly need to be Realistic. That does not mean you need to go out of your Way to make things Unrealistic or Absurd. Games should not be a Simulation. But they also should not be Absurd and Illogical. Making things Illogical and Counterintuitive is Generally Bad Game Design. And should only be done in Horror Games and in Comedy Games where its done on Purpose to throw off the Player. 5. Exceptions Confirm the Rule. So Netherland Cruisers not having ASW isnt changing the General Numbers. And lol. Have you looked at DDs Recently ??? These Things ARE already Monsters. Nearly all of them can basicly Burn through Battleships within Minutes or Devstrike them with Torps. And guess what. Thats exactly where Subs will be going too in this Situation. 6. Unfortunately its not. I have played Sub quite a bit. And I can tell you from Experience. I sometimes have been so close to Depth Charge Detonations that they basicly were between the Camera and my Sub. Yet. I got no Damage whatsoever or only like 500hp Damage. Likewise have I been Watching Depth Charges being Dropped Kilomters away from me. Them being so far away that it didnt even show the Markers anymore. Yet suddenly I was Flooding and Burning from them. And Yes. I have also been sitting there. Getting Devstruck by a Doubledrop of Depth Charges from a Montana. This is either Bugged or the Values on Different Ships are just Crazy Different. Not sure what it is. But its certainly not working as it should right now. 7. See above. 8. Thats a Nice Calculation. But there is a eeny teeny weeny Problem with it. Maybe you should actually Test it. Because the Skill only Improves your UNDERWATER Speed. And only if your Battery is less than 50% on Balao thats like 3 Minutes Tops. So for a whole of 3 Minutes you can be Faster than a Hindenburg. And only if you are at 30m because Balao actually is Slowed at Periscope Depth. So yeah. Great... But dont worry. This will be Buffed. If Submarines dont Perform as wanted against BBs. And thus dont get their Statistical Balanced Results. They will soon go even Faster. 9. Which is Diving Preemptively for which you simply dont have the Dive Capacity. 10. You dont have a Choice. Once your down you dont See Planes anymore. If you go back up its at the risk of being Spotted. Worse. The Regeneration is fairly Slow. So you wont get much back. 11. Yeah. Assuming that they managed to somehow got close to you with their 4-6 Minutes Dive Capacity. But hey. Thanks for the Confirmation that you actually just want CVs to be Buffed so they once again can Hardcounter Everything. How about we make CVs Visible all the Time during the Match. So other Players can actually Counter the CV ? 12. I already got Instakilled several Times by a Single BB using both Drops on me. So Yeah. Sorry but they absolutely can. You sometimes getting 15 hits is more because the Bombs are so damn Wonky that sometimes basicly the entire friggin Drop Hits the Submarine for some reason. Even tough not a Single Depth Charge is actually close enough to really do much. 3x Damage würde heißen das Subs mit nem Einzigen Getroffenen Airdrop Deleted werden könnten. Also Nein Danke. Dann kannste Subs auch gleich Weglassen. Oh Warte. Ich Vergaß. Das is ja an sich dein Ziel.... 13. The ones Breaking them is you guys because you prevent them from being anything different. Thus them needing to get Insane Values. 14. No They Cant. Right now a Full Torp Salvo is not enough to Devstrike a BB unless you Score a Lucky Detonation. Maybe a T8 BB with a T10 Sub. Odin for example *gg* 15. Oh I can get Good Results too. Just not in all Matches. It depends on Luck. I also know some Unicums which make it work. But they are so few in Number that they wont matter in the Statistics. And the Vast Majority of Subs I see basicly just ends up Deleted. And well. I am telling the Truth of course. I know this because I am actually Playing the Subs and thus am seeing it constantly. Unlike a certain someone which doesnt even seem to know that this 18% Speed Skill only Buffs Underwaterspeed.... As for your CV Abilities I cant Comment. Your Profile is Hidden. I know enough CVs which dont even know how to find a Japanese Torpedo DD because they dont know how to use their own Detection Radius to Locate Ships. So as I dont know your Skills with a CV its not possible for me to tell why you were unable to Spot that Sub Player. 16. Tell that WG. Thing is they dont care. They Balance by it regardless. 17. Yep. I know. Even made a whole Topic about it Twice. But thats how WG does things. Dont complain to me. 18. Popularity is a Criteria indeed. But the more relevant one is Performance. And if the Average Player just gets constantly Deleted you can Expect Buffs. Buffs and more Buffs. 19. Ambushing. As Explained a few Times if you would actually Read Properly. 1. You cant See anything in your Picture. Not even at the lower Part of the Picture which is not a Steep Angle at all. Reflection is Stronger the Moment you reach 45 Degrees. Even if we assume the low Altitude Flight. Your Planes wont see anything till they are basicly 300m away from the Sub. And Erm Mate. Actually in most cases you dont see the Seafloor. You only see the Seafloor near the Shore and only if its very Light Reflective itself. (White Sand etc) What you otherwise see is the Reflection of the Sky. 2. So No. Underwater its basicly Invisible unless you are very very close. On the Surface it is still Hard to Spot. But ASW Planes had Radar Detection and Radio Detection with which they could Locate the Subs far outside Visual Range. 3. Your the one who Argued on that Point based on Realism. I from the Get go want this gone because its Stupid and creates a Balance Issue in the Game. So dont Blame me for dragging it into Realism Territory when your the one who dragged it here. And No. Thats the thing. 2km means a 4km Wide Circle. This is pretty Big in a Game with such a Small Playing Field and Preset Spawns. Not sure you Realize this. But as a CV I usually know exactly where the Enemy Sub Starts lol. So I know exactly where I need to Fly over to get an Early Chance for that Sub to be Deleted unless it wants to waste its extremely Limited Dive Capacity. And with that Big Graphics Effect when they use a Ping. Its also Super easy to Find them if you pay a little Attention really.

1. And Yet you Demand to Buff Them. 2. No. Whats Unacceptable is that everyone but CVs have ASW. ASW Should be Limited to DDs and what few Cruisers actually had it. If everyone gets ASW then Submarines no longer Work because their entire Purpose is to Sneak into Ambushes and Kill Ships which cant Fight back before then Running Away when the Ships that can easily Kill them arrive. If you give everyone ASW. Then Submarines end up in a Position where they need to be Buffed into DD Level Torpedoboats. They need to suddenly go very Fast. They suddenly need alot of HP. They suddenly need to have these Mechanics to Shotgun DDs. They suddenly need to have these 14km Range Torpedoes etc etc etc All of this is only Necessary because they took away the Main Advantage a Submarine should have. Which is that most Ships could not effectively Engage and Hunt them. But as every Ship except CVs can Counter them. They need to be Strong enough to actually Fight everyone. Hence them at this Point basicly being more like DDs that can Dive instead of Smoking. 3.1 See my other Points. Depth Charges right now are Super Bugged. Sometimes a Depth Charge will take Half your HP with a Single Hit. Sometimes you can be Next to it and nothing happens. Sometimes you can be 5km away and you get Fire/Flooding from it. etc etc So no. You dont need Tons. Very often a Double Drop by a BB can be Enough and you are Dead. But thats due to the Buggy calculations here. 3.2 Given that Subs are still only as fast as a Colorado. If they are Spotted. And they get Dropped by BBs they are Dead. Diving after you get Spotted doesnt Help. And you cant Dive fast enough to avoid Detection unless you basicly Dive preemptively at the chance of Planes coming your Way. But you dont have Dive Capacity for this. So you dont have any Counterplay. It is why as a CV I dont consider Submarines as a Threat. Because Yeah. They can avoid being Killed by me as long as they can Dive. But frankly. Beyond that they cant do anything. They are like a DD trying to Rush me Alone. Yeah he can Smoke. But he cant Spot me out of Smoke and he cant come closer without leaving Smoke. Thats not Counterplay. Thats Mercymechanics to avoid being entirely Obliterated all the time.... 3.3 I Agree with this. Reality is not mattering here. But from a Balance Perspective. Submarines should not be Spotted by Planes when at Periscope Depth. At least not while BBs can just Launch Airstrikes from 10km away and basicly Instakill Submarines if there is 2 BBs in Range. You guys Complain about Subs ability to already Nuke most Ships. But let me Warn you ahead of Time. Subs are Crab right now. And they will get Implemented no matter how much you try to Resist it. And what will happen if things stay like this. Is that WG will rely on basic Buffs to make them Work. Meaning the Torpdamage will increase even Further till the Point where the Sub can basicly Nuke even a BB with a Single Torp Salvo. Because right now. What happens constantly. Is that a Sub gets Spotted by Planes flying over. And then 2-4 BBs Order Airstrikes on it. Causing it to basicly be Dead Immediately with 0 Damage done. Bam. Statistics know. Subs are Underpowered as well. The few Unicum Players that already abuse the Mechanics to Nuke People wont change that. So to make sure the Average Damage is at the level it should be. WG will Buff Damage to make sure the Sub is "balanced" Guess why they refused to give the Full Nerf to Dispersion. Of course they wont. It would massively Drop the Subs Average Values because now DDs could actually Hunt it. Which of course makes Subs Unplayable when BBs can already Hunt them this effectively. Mark my Words on this Mate. Unless the Mechanics are Changed to Allow Subs actually doing their Job. Subs will instead be Buffed until they are basicly Yolo Emilios.

Elbing... Forrest Sherman.... Ja. Wie kann Ich diese DDs nur Gut finden. Ich Ahnungloser Noob Ich.....

Sure. Because clearly CVs need more Buffs. Not to mention that with current Mechanics this basicly Means Submarines can just as well not Play at all because they will just get Bomb Spammed by BBs Immediately. Then again. Submarines being Unplayable and effectively just being Killed before even reaching the Battlefield is likely exactly what you want...... Its not so much about the Glare. Its because once you have an Angle to the Sea. What you See is not the Sea Floor. its the Sky. Because Light is Reflected from the Sky. Because of that anything below the Surface becomes really hard to Spot unless it is extremely Big and extremely Bright. Thus reflecting alot of the Remaining Light that Breached the Surface. For Example Sandy Shores especially if its White Sand can do that. Submarines however were very Dark and did not Relfect alot of Light. And in the Game they are Spotted at 2km while Planes usually Fly at about 300-600m Altitude at Best. Which means in best Case you are Looking at the Sea in a 16 Degrees Angle. At that Angle you will never possibly Spot a Submarine that is Submerged.

Except that Shotgunning happens at below 2km Range. Where this Change is basicly nonexistent and likely will address maybe 1 out of 100 cases of Shotgunning. 5 Degrees is barely enough to Miss a DD that is 100% Bow In on such Ranges. Which means that 1 out of 100 Cases where Shotgunning is Prevented is a DD thats going Straight for the Submarine without any Steering. And then is actually Lucky enough that the Submarine Roles Worst Possible Outcome on more than Half his Torpedoes.

For your Picture. Very Low Altitude: Check Directly above the Sub: Check Extremely Calm Sea: Check Third Person Checking out the Open Side: Check Now try Spotting a Submarine from something like this:

Way to Ignore the Relevant Part. Allow me to Return the Favor and thus consider this to be your Admissions that this is a Buff to Submarines.

Well Compared to 3 Years ago they have been Implemented. But choosing a Specific Point in Time rather than the last Information available to your opposite Party is not really gonna Impress that Opposite Party. And the last Info we got was that Subs are getting 10-16 Degrees Dispersion. Now that has been changed to give them only 1-5 Degrees Dispersion. Which means in our Eyes they have been Buffed. Even tough I frankly could not care less what you call it. Wether we call it a Buff or a Nerfed Nerf etc is entirely irrelevant really. What I care for is that this Nerf is doing absolutely nothing to Fix the Problem. 1-5 Degrees does not Prevent Subs from Shotgunning DDs. And unless they Shoot their Torps at over 10km Distance it also wont really matter towards hitting Targets in General.

No. This is totally Unrelated to be Honest. Aircraft were used in ASW Patrol because Submarines only Submerged in Combat. When Traveling Submarines generally were on the Surface. Thus being Spottable by Aircraft. Especially because Aircraft could get much closer to them before being Noticed. And Aircraft received Detection Equipment that allowed them to home in on Surfaced Submarines and Sink them BEFORE they Submerged. Once Submerged. Submarines were practically Invisible for Aircraft. Finding a Submerged Submarine at Periscope Depth from the Air can be easier under a very Specific Circumstance. Which is to be in very Calm Sea and Flying at very low Altitude with a Spotter Aircraft that can Look down Directly below it. Thus being able to Spot the Underwater Shadow of a Submarine. None of that is the case here. We dont have ASW Aircraft with Submarine Search Radars. And the Fighters and Strike Aircraft from the CV are not Spotter Aircraft that can look for hard to discern Shadows below themselves. From the Cockpit of such Aircraft you could only see the Ground 2-3 times your own Altituude away at an Angle where you would never be Capable of making out the Shadow of a Submarine.

Since we are on the Topic I will also provide some Toughts and Feedback on this thing entirely. Pls Note. I am in Favor of Submarines coming to the Game. I was from the Start and this has not Changed. BUT. Putting it Bluntly. If Subs stay the way they are now. Then I would in Fact rather not have them at all. Because rights now they give really nothing good to the Game. They are Frustrating to Play and are Frustrating to Play against. Their Gameplay is Boring, Complicated, Annoying and Useless. And Playing against them is even worse. 1. Everyone and their Mom has ASW. This Completely Ruins the whole Premise of a Submarine as well as Completely Ruining the whole Premise of Requiring Escorts. Instead. Right now. The Best Submarine Hunters are Battleships. Because they can from 10km away Drop Depth Charges on any Spotted Submarine without getting into Danger themselves. And not only that unlike DDs which rely on Stealth and thus cant easily Approach Submarines. They dont care about being Spotted and dont even have to go Forward into Dangerzones to Fight Submarines. But unlike DDs they also have the Leisure to Spray repeated ASW Attacks on Areas from where they are Pinged. Thanks to that. Battleships right now are the Absolute Best Submarine Hunters. Followed by Heavy Cruisers. With DDs and CLs being the absolute Worst at Hunting Submarines. Its Frankly Ridiculous that the Class which at absolute best should have an Emergency Token Defense against Submarines is the Strongest Submarine Hunter in the Game. While the Class which should be the Primary Submarine Hunter of the Game is generally Food for a Submarine because not only cant they really Kill the Submarine without Driving over it which even if the Shotgun Fails allows the Sub to take them down with them by Forcing a Ram. But Submarines also Ruin their Stealth and thus effectively allow the Entire Team to Shoot them and thus forcing them to fall back unless they want to do a Suicide Charge. And just to add Insult to Injury. Submarine Torps are also so Weak that you need 2-3 Full Salvos to Hit a BB to Kill it. This is Horrible and Ridiculous. And its Frustrating for everyone Involved. Its Frustrating for the DD which is Fodder for a Class that should be his Target. Its Frustrating for the Submarine which will constantly Blinddropped by BBs if it tries to Ping someone. Its Frustrating for the CV whose DCP can be triggered by a Ping. Its Frustrating for CLs which got even less chance against Sub than DDs and are even more Vulnearble if Spotted. And its Frustrating for CAs which got less Range on the Depth Charges because well you know. For Fun I guess. 2. The Dive Capacity for Submarines is Abysmally Low. The Class Supposed to not Surface during Combat unless its an Emergency. Is pretty much more likely to Play as a Spotting DD right now. Because it cant really Stay Underwater for more than a Third of the Battle. And thats T10 with all Buffs. On T8 its already a Quarter even with all the Skills etc. Not only is that making them more Useful to the Team if they Stay above Water and Spot. But it also means that Submarines have even less Reason to try and Dive into Enemy Lines. Instead being Encouraged to Just stay below their Teams and work as half Stationary Torpedo Turrets. Which is by the way the 2 Playstyles that seem to be Promoted. Either being a Spotter for the Team with the Torps being Reserved to Shotgun any DD or CL stupid enough to Try and come for them. Ruining DDs and CLs Lifes. Or to just Sit below their Team and Spam Homing Torpedoes at Long Range Range .... 3. The Damage Model and Depth Charge Ranges and Damages are completely Random with no Discernable Pattern or Sense. I have NO IDEA how these Work. Sometimes I sit right in between Depth Charges being Dropped on me. And absolutely Nothing happens. And Sometimes a Depth Charge so far away that I never even guessed it could possibly Hit me. Suddenly causes my Submarine to have Oil Spills, Catch on Fire and go Flooding. Because you know. Reasons I guess. And the same is true for Surface Ships. Sometimes I drop Bombs on Subs and despite me still seeing the Submarine being right in between the Depth Charges. it just takes no damage whatsoever. And sometimes Depth Charge Drops Hit a Submarine that wasnt even there anymore several Seconds Prior to the Detonation. I got no Idea how this is Caldulated or how this is supposed to work. It seems some Depth Charges have Splash Radius of like 5km while others have 50m 4. The Homing Torps. Frankly. I wish you would just Remove them at this Point. Because by now the only thing for which they are useful. Is to Strike Reversing BBs from 10km away. Anything else you are actually better off dropping the Torps without Homing effect. Because by now everyone knows about the Torps losing the Homing effect before they arrive. So everyone knows they can Evade the Torps easily by just turning out or in once they crossed that threshold. So unless the Target is a BB thats Reversing or Stationary. Thus not able to change its Course enough after the Threshold is reached. Making the Torps Homing only causes them to be easier to evade in most cases. Meanwhile the non Homing Torps are Slow and thus little threat to most Targets. Hence the best option right now often being to just Fire Homing Torps without a Ping to Home in on. Using the Ping only if you know the Torps will miss to give a small extra chance hoping the Enemy is a Potato. 5. The Air Detection. This is so Ridiculous that I dont even know what to say. A Submarine at Periscope Depth being Visible to Aircraft...... Just why..... Now. Whats my Suggestions for this ? Simple. 1. Make Balance Waterbombs and Fix their Freaking Range and Damage. So that they behave somewhat Reasonable and Predictable. This should go without needing to be Said to be Honest. 2. Friggin Change ASW. Remove Depth Charge Strikes from BBs entirely. Intead give their HE Shells a Range of up to 10m into the Water. Thus them being able to Force a Submarine to Dive Deep where they cant spot the BB at Range. Or Risk being Hit by the BB by being at Periscope Depth if their Ping is Seen and the BB can Fire at them with HE. For BBs and Cruisers which have a Catapult Aircraft. Give them a Single Depth Charge Airstrike. Which is not Summoned Magically but actually Starts 2 Spotter Planes with Depth Charges and lets them Drop em on a Location. Only 4 Depth Charges. So no Spraying etc. But just a Depth Charge Option for Self Defense if a Submarine is so close that you can Pinpoint its Location from Pings or if its Spotted by a DD. But has no worth on Spraying an Area. For Cruisers that do not have a Plane Catapult. Add Depth Charge Launchers. Regardless of Historical Matters. Furthermore. For T10 DDs even if they did not have them. Add Hedgehogs. This Games T10 is Fantasy anyways. If we already follow a Fantasy Scenario where the War Continued past 45. Then there is no Reason why not all Nations would have Upgraded their Destroyer to such Devices. This will Restore Proper Roles. Giving BBs and Cruisers a Self Defense but not make them Top Sub Hunters. And establish DDs as the Best Class to Hunt DDs. 3. Give DDs and Submarines Hydrophones which are constantly active and which will Spot Enemy Ships AND Submarines in 5km Distance if the Sub is on Surface or at Periscope Depth. But ONLY for themselves. Hydrophone Spots should not be Shared with the Team except the Map Position. That Range is Reduced to 2km if the Sub is at 30m and at 60m the Sub is no longer Detectable. This goes both ways. For the Submarine AND the DD. So if the Sub is at 60m it cant be Detected by this but also cant Detect others with it. This way the Submarine is Forced to Dive if a DD approaches it. Thus not being able to just keep Spotting it and Ruining its ability to actually try and Hunt for the Submarine. 4. Remove the Ping and Homing Torps. Replace them by Acoustic Torps that will Automaticly Home on whatever Target entering their Sensor Range First. Make them Home in on the Target as long as it remains going at more than Half Speed. Not Grace Range for the other Side to Avoid it. If a Ship wants to the Evade them. They have to Drop to Half Speed ahead of Time and Maneuver. Thus making the Torps lose the Homing Effect and then Change Course. This makes these Torpedoes more Dangerous for Unaware Targets. But also allows for actual Counterplay to it. 5. Remove Air Spotting of Submarines unless they are at the Surface. Subs should be Completely invisible for Planes if they are at Periscope or Deeper. This goes without saying really. Or TLDR. Pls make Submarines into actualy Stealthy Ambushers. Rather than them being either Speedboat Spotters or Stationary Torpedo Turrets....

Dont think it will. 1-3-5 Degrees is basicly unnoticable in Short Range. I mean lets take the biggest one. The 5 Degrees on T10 Subs. that basicly means you have the Width of the Torpedo Indicator Tripled. Which is barely big enough to actually Miss a DD at 1km if that DD is 100% Bow in. The Arming Distance for German Torps is like 700m or something for the Guided Torps which have perfectly enough Damage to Shotgun a DD. So for most part. This will at absolute best case make it so that a DD may Survive a Shotgun Attempt Heavily Damaged rather than Dead if he is Lucky and the Enemy Sub gets Bad Rolls on the Dispersion. Pls note. If the DD is even trying to evade slightly this is already Ruined. Because he ends up showing more Silouette and thus is once again bigger than the whole Torpedo Launcher Dispersion. So basicly. All this small Angle does is give the DD a Minimal Survival Chance if he just goes 100% Bow in towards the Sub. Mind you still likely losing more than Half his HP in the Process. Not sure why you guys are so against the Idea to simply Increase Arming Distance for all Torpedoes to 2.5km and thus just Removing the whole Shotgun thing.

Question is what CV you are using :) GZ only has 2 AP Bombs and while they do have good Penetration for T8 AP Bombs. They are not on T10 level :) As you mentioned Triple Citadels. You are likely talking about a Different CV. And each CV has his own AP Bomb Values. Haku and Richthofen which are Tier 10 for example have alot more Penetration than Graf Zeppelin which is Tier 8. So Hakuryu will have a much easier time landing Citadels even on US and British BBs. British Battleships have Layered Decks for most Part. (Not all of them have alot of Layers. And some also got very Weak Layers that are just Base Plating.) Which makes them Difficult for GZ to Citadel. But that doesnt mean you cant Citadel them. You can still get Citadels sometimes. Its just much more Protected than for example German BBs which usually have no additional Armored Decks in between. So Yes. I am sure about British Battleships. But keep in mind. Being Harder to Citadel does not mean you cant Citadel it. It just means that you will score less Citadels and often only get Fullpens instead. Than you could Score on other Ships. And Being Harder to Citadel for Graf Zeppelin does not forcibly Apply to other CVs as they have other AP Bomb Values. :)

For the Specifics almost only WG themselves will likely be able to tell you. Because the effects are way too Random as to Say for Certain by just Playertesting. As such I cant indulge you on how exactly the Mechanics behind it work. But in terms of Gameplay. The thing that mostly matters is the Ship you Target. Each Ship in this Game has an Armor Layout. This Armor Layout. And especially the Armor Layers on the Decks are whats Relevant for you. Because your AP Bombs have a Fuse and a Penetration. This Penetration and Fuse. Make your Bombs capable of Traveling through a certain amount of Armor and Explode after having covered a certain Distance. To this there is 4 Options of what can happen. 1. You Bounce off on the Armor. This is fairly rare and usually only happens if you are Unlucky and Hit a really Thick Armored Part becaise AP Bombs do have quite high Penetrate. It can happen if you Drop late as you are more likely to strafe the Sidearmor. However it can also sometimes happen by Bouncing off the Side of a Turret. 2. You get a Full Penetration but no Citadel. You Penetrate the Armored Deck. But due to the Distance the Bomb goes off before reaching the Citadel Deck. Or: You Penetrate the Armored Deck. But your Bomb does not have enough Penetration to Penetrate all the way into the Citadel. These 2 usually happen on Ships which either have Several Armored Decks or where the Distance between Deck and Citadel is too Big. British Battleships often are hard to Citadel due to this. 3. You get a Citadel Penetration. This is the Desire Effect of course. And means your Bomb Traveled all the Way through the Deck Armor into the Citadel. It generally happens on Ships that are Low in the Water and dont have Multiple Armored Decks. German and Russian BBs are very easy to Citadel for example. 4. You get an Overpen. This happens if your Bomb goes through the Citadel and Detonates in the Water below. Happens especially on Cruisers where the Deck Armor is often not Thick enough. Now. How to get the Best Results. Mosty you need to know what Ship you are Attacking. French, British and US BBs are Hard to Citadel. So you should avoid these. If you wanna Attack them you likely only get Fullpens. For the Best Chance to Score a Citadel. Avoid the Superstructure and Turrets so your Bomb only has to go through the Deck and Citadel and not go through any Extra Thickness. Japanese BBs are somewhat over the Place. Most can be Citadeled. But there is Exceptions. And you also need to avoid the Superstructure as well as Possible. German, Russian and Italian BBs as well as most Supercruisers are Generally very easy to Citadel. The Superstructure also matters little to it. So here you can Drop fairly easily without much regards. On Cruisers you should try to Drop them from the Side. Basicly short before the Run is Aborted when the Bombers are already in Level Flight. And you should try to hit Midships into the Superstructure to give the Bomb as much Thickness as Possible to go through to have the largest Chance to avoid Overpens. Dont bother dropping DDs. As they dont have the Armor to Stop the Bombs. Meaning you pretty much always only get Overpens.

Das Forum is leider nicht besonders Freundlich gegenüber Anfängern. Insbesondere dann wenn diese Anfänger nicht Ja und Amen zu allem Sagen. Was das Topic selbst aber Angeht. Ist hier nichts Falsches geschehen. Du hast Falsch Gespielt. Bist mit deinem CV nach vorne Gefahren und hast dementsprechend recht schnell sehr viel Schaden kassiert. Du Scheint auch wenig Schadensmitigation durch vorgeschobene Jäger und Ausweichmaneuver erreicht zu haben. (Jäger auf dir sind nutzlos weil die ja den Gegner erst angreifen wenn er abgeworfen hat. Du musst die also Vorgeschoben Positionieren.) Die Parsifal is da kein Einzelfall. Die meisten T8 CVs können andere T8 CVs recht schnell Versenken wenn diese zu nah heran. Da ein CV General die HP eines Kreuzers aber die Wendigkeit eines BBs hat ist er ein Leichtes wenn auch Teures Ziel (Die Jäger auch wenn sie den Anriff nicht verhindern. Kosten halt Flieger) Generell lohnt dieses Ziel nicht. Weil man ja 30km ausseinander ist. Und daher für jeden Flug 2-3 Minuten Braucht. Noch mehr wenn man um andere Schiffe Rumfliegen muss. Aber wenn der CV einem halt den Gefallen tut und nach vorne kommt wo er nicht in Reichweite der Kanonen ist und einen Angriff so auch fürs Spotting Wertvoll macht. Sondern noch dazu massiv die Flugdauer für den Angriff Reduziert. Dann ist er schnell ein Lohnendes Ziel. Für die Zukunft. Du solltest immer im Auge behalten das du selber nicht zu nah an den Gegner heranfährst wenn du keine Deckung (große Insel) hast um dich vor Fernfeuer und schnellen Bomben Drops zu schützen. Wenn der CV dich Angreift solltest du dich zurückziehen und Fighter zwischen dich und den Gegner CV positionieren. Zudem solltest du nach Positionierung der Fighter schauen wo der Gegner CV ist. Denn ein CV der dich Angreift ist wahrscheinlich auch weiter vorne. Und wenn du ihn Aufdeckst könnte er schnell andere Probleme haben als dich Anzugreifen. Wenn dein Gegner ein CV ist der Starke aber nur einzelne Angriffe fliegen kann. (Russische CVs) solltest du eine Auge darauf haben ob er dich angreift. Denn wenn du die Angriffe kommen siehst kannst du dich in Position bringen um möglichst wenig Schaden zu nehmen. Denn um dich Rumfliegen dauert sehr lange und kostet Flieger. Aber von ungünstigen Winkeln Droppen macht wenig Schaden. Damit kannst du Russischen CVs sehr schnell die Suppe versalzen.

This is the Build I use for German BBs. Because their Secondaries are worth that Sacrifice. Especially Nowdays were thanks to no German BBs usualy not needing IFHE and you having 2 Points extra. You can have both the Tank Build and the Secondary Build at once. Some will replace the Faster Reload on Damage Control and heal with Adrenaline Rush. Because it gives you more Firepower. Because aside from that. I really dont think its taking anything away from my Ship. I could use the reduced Dispersion for my Main Guns instead of Secondary Upgrade. But on German BBs thats mostly without use because your Main Guns got Terrible Accuracy that even if Buffed isnt gonna Improve much. For US BBs its not even a Question because they got high Range and the only alternative on that Slot is a Range Upgrade. And for most others the Secondaries are not useful to Spec. But instead their Main Guns have better Accuracy and they got way better HE than German BBs. Which means while the Secondaries wont Outgon the Akizuki alone. The Akizuki will be Devastated by Main Gun Hits Quickly. In Gerneral. DD Fighting BB in an Artillery Duel will usually go Badly for the DD unless he has Smoke and someone else to Spot so the BB can only Blindfire. Or he can Gunboat from high Range where thanks to his Speed and Maneuverability he can Evade Incoming Salvos from You. Otherwise they will need Torps to Win over a BB. But thats the thing. If a guy with an MG42 stands up from his Cover. Puts the MG42 on his Hip and then Pulls the trigger through Spraying his entire Ammo Belt into the Air because he cant Control the Recoil. Thus then standing there in the Open. The Veteran with his M1 will take Aim and with a few Shots will put that Machinegunner out of his Misery. Now. I am pretty sure. A Single Rifleman taking out a Machinegun Nest without even using Grenades. Provides just as much of a Mental Block as a DD Outgunning a BB ;) But thats how the World goes. A Weapon no matter how Powerful is just not going to be very Effective if the User has no Idea how to use it. xD

That so ? Lets take a Look. What do People need to keep in mind when they want to use a BB with Secondaries to Fight an Akizuki. A. The Preparation you should have when you use a Secondary Build that is Prone to be close to the Enemy and thus Prone to be HE Spammed. 1. Use a Secondary Build and Upgrades of course. Without that Secondaries are Terrible even on German BBs. 2. Use Skills and Modules to Buff Secondaries Survival Rate. Cause otherwise Ships like Akizuki if Played by a Good Player will Dismantle them Quickly and thus your Secondaries become useless. 3. Use Skills and Modules to Buff Protection against Fire Damage and have enough Healing Available to Repair Back Fire Damage. A Full Build if I got a 21 Point Captain Available would look like this. https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSB208&modules=12121&upgrades=212130&commander=PCW001&skills=11051104&flags=4035&consumables=111&pos=0 B. The actual Combat. (Pls note we are here assume the Situation of the OP. Being 1 on 1 with the Akizuki for Minutes without others Interfering and without the Akizuki having Torpedoes Ready.) 4. Move into an Angle where you have as many Secondaries as possible Firing at the Enemy Ship. While at the same Time showing as little of your Vulnearble Weakly Armored Surfaces to the Enemy Ship. This for Zieten means to Angle away from the Enemy. So you hide more of your Superstructure and Deck behind Turrets and force the Akizuki to mostly Aim for your easily Saturated Stern. This also serves to limit the Fires Spawned on you. Because it becomes harder for the Akizuki to reach the Bow and Center Ship Section. Thus limiting Fires to Stern and Superstructure. 5. Dont Forget to Manually Target the Akizuki. Because DDs are Small and Secondary Dispersion is only good enough to kill them Quickly if your use Manual Target Selection. 6. After Firing your First Salvo at the DD. Load HE. Because HE not only does more Damage to a DD. But it also Cripples his Modules. Thus reducing his Combat Abilities. 7. Use your Heal once you lost enough HP that its worth the use. And use DCP only once you either got 3 Fires or assume the Akizuki will be Dead within the 15 Seconds your immunity Last. Because if you use it early you.ll end up with massive amounts of Fires taking alot of your HP quickly and without you being able to counter it. (3 Fires because this means 1 of the Fires is now Center or Bow Section. Because these are hard to hit for the Akizuki when your Angled away and will cause him to waste alot of Shells on Shatters. While Fires on on Stern and Superstructure are not worth putting out as they are easily set again. Thus Using DC at the Third Fire means your hard to Hit Section were the Akizuki will Bounce and Shatter alot of its Shells without Damage is free of Fire again. Forcing the Akizuki to again Fire on it if it wants more than 2 Fires on you) Most of this is pretty Basic Stuff that most Good Players will know. And will in many cases do without even Thinking about them. But we are not Talking about a Veteran Player here. And in Randoms. It is frankly said much more common to See Players not even obey Half of these points. A Zieten which only has a Basic Secondary Build. And only goes Broadside to the Akizuki to allow its Secondaries to Shoot. Will absolutely get Recked if the Akizuki Player is Good. Because the Akizuki Player will not only be able to nicely Choose between 3 Sections to delay Saturation. He will also be able to Disable alot of Secondaries and also Set Fires to all different Ship Sections easily while not having to worry about constantly hitting the Main Turrets other Armored Parts. Thus massively Increasing the Damage Output of the Akizuki while Limiting the Zietens Damage output. As the Zieten also did not Select Manual Target his Accuracy will be Crab and mostly Miss the Akizuki. And with AP in the Main Guns. Not only will your Near Misses not disable any Modules on the DD with Splash Damage. But even if you hit you will do little to no Damage. For Players not used to this. All of these little Details and Mechanics are not exactly something they think about during a Fight. Even many Decent Players do them mostly Unconsciously and dont realize why exactly it is that doing these things is so Importand.

Why is your Forum Account and the Account of your Posted Statistics not matching up ? ^^

It doesnt. Zieten vastly Outguns Akizuki. Honestly said. At 8km the Zieten Secondarys can handle Akizuki alone. But that only works if you know what you are doing and actually skilled right etc. A Veteran with a Pistol will easily handle an untrained Teenager with an MG.