Sunleader

I know that Feeling. My Solo Winrate is over 54% actually. My Division Winrates however are 52 and 49%.... But I dont Play with my Friends to Gain an Advantage. Most of the Time I play with them to Help them Grind and for the Fun of it. I know there is some People Playing in Division to Increase Victory Chances and even Kick others from Division if they feel they are Bad Players or dont Perform Good enough. But thats a Joke to me. I am playing for Fun and when I play with Friends I play with them regardless of their Skill level...

1. I merely Pointed out why General Statistics are more Importand nothing more ;) Also I do not have the Extensions to Sort this. So to me the Link you gave me just is an Unsorted List of all Ships in the Game. If you want to make a point on this pls Describe it out or Screenshot it based on how you Sorted it. 2. We Agree on a Fundamental Part. But we Disagree on others. And so For example take no Offense. But with Bismarck if I fire at the Broadside of a Cruiser 6km away. It is extremely Rare luck to Delete him. If I do the same with Amagi or Vladivostock I actually Expect it to be Gone because 9 out of 10 times it is. And pls Note. Musashi has Nerfed Accuracy due to having Tier 10 Hull and Guns in Tier 9. 3. But thats the Thing Mate. Playability is a Factor of Balancing. If Ship A Sucks unless you Play it in a very Specific Way which not only Requires a Higher level of Skill like being Aware of the Course of the Match and thus being able to Initiate a Push at the Right time. But also Requires that a Certain Chance for such a Push is Created in the Course of the Battle. While Ship B is Generally pretty Good regardless of the Situation. Then the Result in Random Battles with Random Teams is Pretty Obvious. Its the same as with German Cruisers. German Cruisers are AWESOME when you got a Decent Team that can use the Support of your Hydro and if YOU are able to actually Play your Cruiser in a Way for your Team to Exploit it. But lets Face it. Team Reliant Ability in a Game where your Playing with Random Teammates are simply not going to be something very Valuable. So if you take away General Power of that Ship in exchange for such Teambased Abilities. Then you will more often than not Nerf that Ship into Oblivion as the Team Abilities might be Strong on Paper but in actual Game almost never come to pass because you just cant expect that level of Teamwork in Random Teams that much. The same also goes for Specific Situational Strengths. Lets take the Z52 as Example. The Z52 is an Insanely Strong DD IF your Enemy does not know about it. I had that Yesterday. Harugumo came into 5km Range of me. So I smoked and used Hydro. He Smoked as well cause he was Obviously a Noob. So I could easily and Safely Kill him. But One trick Ponies like that rarely work in Higher Tiers. 9 out of 10 DDs I meet. Know exactly that I have a Hydro and wont come within 6km of me unless they got Hydro themselves or they are Charging at me and thus will be within 3km Auto Detection Range in a matter of Seconds. Meaning that my Hydro is entirely Meaningless. Now the thing I pay for this is that the Z52 has the Worst DPS of T10 DDs. Meaning almost any Enemy DD will be able to Beat it in a Gunfight relatively Easily. You cannot Expect Players to always Play each Ship by its Strength because The Game Meta Sets out what most Ingame Situations are. And Changing these Situations to a more Favorable has a Pretty High Skill Requirement that might be Expected from Very Good Players but Certainly not from the Average Player. Which is Normal by the way. Because the Skill Requirement to Change a Situation away from the Meta is that your that much more Skilled than the Majority of Players to begin with. Meaning it ends up a Self Defeating Prophecy because the moment you would give all Players the Skill to Play like that. You would still end up with Bismarck Underpowered because the Enemies in their Amagis and Vladivostocks will instead force it into their preferred Situations again. Making Bismarck Weak despite everyone trying to Play to its Strengths. The Bismarck is a Knife in a Pistol Fight. Sure. In the rare case of the Fight turning into Ultra Close Quarters. AND you actually being Good at this Kind of Fight and having the Skills needed to Realize a Chance for that Scenario to Push into it. Then the Bismarck is Absolutely Great. Because your a Juggernaut taking much more Punishment than others in that Specific Situation and Dishing our extra Damage in all Directions while having Fast Turning Turrets and Fast Reloading Guns to use Chances wherever they come to you. But lets Face it. That is not the Scenario you usually get in this Game. :) And being Good at a Scenario that only happens now and then is Ultimate meaning that your not Good most of the Time. 1. Turning away from a Cruiser as a Bismarck means your not just Halfing your Firepower. Your Quartering it. Because your Secondaries stop Firing as well as your Forward Turrets. So unless the Enemy Cruiser was a Yolo and your Team can then Kill him for you. You have Effectively put yourself in a Highly Disadvantaged Position. Needless to say that this "Relying on your Team" Strategy is something that really does not work that well in Random Games. Meanwhile if I am in a Vladi or Amagi I just wait for him to Turn. And BAM Cruiser Deleted. 2. Demeaning Comment without Explanation. irrelevant to Topic. If you got nothing useful to say just Shut up. 3. See Explanation I already gave to Forlorn above. Which is not Surprising. The Z52 is a Ship which is Literally worse in most Basic Aspects. Its got Incredible Low DPS on its Guns. Its got Incredible Weak Torpedoes. Its got one of the worst Smokes in the Game. And on top its not only Pretty Big for a DD and thus easier to Hit. But also Pretty Sluggish for a DD thus not being as Good on Evasion or Speed as other DDs. The only thing it has. Is the High Range Hydro which Works on 6km Distance against Ships. And the Fairly High Damage AP Shells. Which is Incredible Strong IF you are Skilled enough to Create a Situation where you can use it. AND IF the Enemy is not Skilled enough to Reverse or Prevent that Situation. For example. I yesterday had an Enemy Harugumo which didnt know how to do this Properly. And which Strafed me on 5km Distance thinking oh Yeah Easy Kill for my Machineguns. Then ending up Killed because I Smoked up and used Hydro thus me being the only one Firing Effectively. But thats a Rare Case. 9 out of 10 Enemy T10 DDs will know about Z52 Hydro and will Simply Stay 6km away so they can Retreat out of Hydro range any Time and Pummel you because they know they get better DPS than you and your Easier to Hit than them anyways. The Z52 is Certainly a Great Ship in the Hands of a Unicum which is Capable of Seeing, Creating and Exploiting Favorable Situations by using Special Abilities like Hydro. But as Explained above. This only works if the Enemy Inferior and thus Allows you to Dominate the Situation like that. If he is Equally Skilled he will not only Know of your Abilities and also that your Base Power is much lower than his own. But he will also not be Giving you the Opportunities to Create such Situations and will Avoid the Situations you Set up. Hence it going back to a Simple Contest of Power which you cannot Win.

1. Not Really. If you dont Remember them Bowtanking was never the Biggest Problem. The Biggest Problem is that when they Turn to Drop Torps. In a Vladi or Amagi I just Delete them. In Bismarck you just dont freaking hit.... 2. Thing is they can be Strong and it doesnt matter. Because they just dont replace the Main Battery Hits you fail. As I said. Its not about making it work. With enough Skill you can make almost any Ship work. Its about being Balanced and that is not the case here. 3. Not Really. See thats the thing. Bismarck is a Brawler. It should have Hitratio like Vladi because mostly it Fires Short Range. Or at least like Richi. But its Worse. It might be better than US and IJN on Paper. But these have more Guns and Fight on higher Range. They also Deal more Damage per Hit. So them having lower Hitratio is Normal.

1. Well. In my Case its also Simple Bias. I only have German Cruiser Line on this Level so Far. So Actually just assumed that this was the same as for others. After all BBs all got 32mm after T8 as well. I Corrected that in my Post as well. 2. To begin with the Scenario is just one Ingame thing I noticed as a German Cruiser. But thats also why Spreadsheet is so Importand. A Single Person will be Biased towards its own Experience. Thats why its Importand to instead use General Statistics. 3. Dont need to Peak for that. Its the Fourth or so Topic on German Ships being Underpowered in less than a Month. And he has Posted these Tables in every Single one of these Topics.. Every Single Time Sorting it by Winrate and Ignoring everything else..... In some of the Topics he Posted it like 3 Times... So thats not really a Hard Guess..... 4. Mate No Offense but it Absolutely is.... I mean Sorry but do you know how many Times I have Missed a Cruiser Broadsiding me 6km away and Watching my Shells land all around the Enemy Cruiser ? And the Reload is not really that much better that it matters. Its 4 Seconds Faster which is next to Nothing really. And when you Miss this Badly it barely Matters. And Yes. I am Including Number of Guns and Turret Configuration here. Richeleu for example has the Exact same Accuracy as Bismarck. But thanks to the Richi having 2x4 Turrets which Sit right next to each Other. Your Actual Accuracy is way higher than that of the Bismarck. This is also why People consider the Grosser Kurfürst a massive Upgrade on Accuracy. It actually has exactly the same Accuracy as the other German BBs. But it has 12 instead of 8 Guns. Which makes a Tremendous Difference. This is actually the case for alot of Ships. Their Actual Accuracy Rating is not really that much Better. But with 2 Triple Forward Turrets they Simply Perform better. Because alot more of their Shells land on one Place. 1. I corrected that Mistake. My Apologies. But that is what happens when instead of going by Spreadsheet you go by Personal Experience. 2. Problem is mate. Secondaries dont actually Stop anyone. And your Sacrificing a Crabton of other Advantages for them. Because a Full Secondary Build actually already needs a 18 Point Captain who has to Spend 15 Points on Secondaries alone. And 3 Points to Reach up into Secondary Skills. Moreover the Secondaries just dont make up for the Bad Accuracy and the Inferior Gunpower. 3. Too small Sample Size and also Irrelevant. As I said Personal Stats are not useful. Because your just one Person. My own Stats for example look Different. I got way worse Accuracy with Bismarck and way better Accuracy with Vladivostock. (Seriously Accuracy of Vladivostock is Insane thanks to Firing Short Range and mostly using the 2 Triple Forward Turrets...)

1. I see thats fine with me Then. Alaska has 27mm. I Admit I cant check Stalingrad as I dont have it. So I apologize if I got that one Wrong. 2. The Spreadsheet is the Importand Part here Mate. Because its Completely irrelevant what kind of Singled out Incident a few Players got. The Fact is that the vast Majority of Players is Worse in the Bismarck than in other BBs. And that means it needs to be Buffed. 3. See Above. 4. I have Colonel Pete on Ignore as he tends to Derail and Discussions and only Cherry Pick whatever Suits and even ignoring if it proves him wrong on other Claims he made just one Post before. Let me Guess. He posted another 1 Week Cutout from Maplesyrup and Sorted by Winrate Completely ignoring all other Statistics again right ? Hes been doing that every Single Time. Because being 0.1% better in Winrate surely justifies that Bismarck is among the Worst in terms of Damage and Kills and earns among the least Exp per Battle... As for Hitratio let me Guess. Japanese and French are Worst. Which is to be Expected because they Generally Shoot on Higher Range. Germans are Third Worst because well. German Accuracy SUCKS even on Close Range. And I have a Feeling Russians take the Top Spot because well Russian Game..... Edit: Removed a Wrong Statement. Most Cruisers actually got 25mm I actually tought most had 27mm. See this is why its so Importand to go by Spreadsheet and not by something on the Server. I mostly Play German Cruisers and I can just Bowtank Bismarck. So I assumed all can do it. Because thats Generally my Experience. But guess what. i was wrong. Because thats what happens when you go by Personal Experiences rather than by Global Data. Just like a few of you got Good Games with Bismarck and thus dont thinks its Underpowered. But thats just your own Personal Bias on the Ship. The Facts are in the Spreadsheet and Show that Bismarck Sucks compared to other BBs ;) 1. Actually the Point was to go by Silver Ships only as the Premium and Limited Ones tend to not be Included in the Bigger Statistics. If you need A Ton of Steel to get a Ship its Average Statistics will Skyrocket by Default because the Players having it will mostly not be Complete Noobs. 2. HAHAHAHA. Yeah because with Bismarck HE you have such Pinpoint Accuracy that you will actually Hit LOOOL. 3. It matters alot Actually. Because the Fact that they can Bowtank the Bismarck is not Reliant on Torpedoes lol. 4. So I was wrong on Stalin. My Mistake I dont have it in Port. So it has the usual 50/25 Config. Still Good enough to take Barely any Damage from a Bismarck thanks to how Horrible Bismarcks Accuracy is...

1. Yes but Roma comes with way better Accuracy. And Richeleu comes with 2x4 Forward Mounted Guns allowing it to Bowtank without giving up any Firepower. 2. German Cruisers, Japanese Cruisers, French Cruisers, Russian Cruisers, Italian Cruisers, British Cruisers. The US dont have Torpedoes. Now we are Talking about Bismarck T8. So I dont know why you bring T10 Cruisers into this. Especially ones which can Massacre a Bismarck Easily in an Artillery Duel. But whats triggering me more right now is that on top your spreading False Information. Alaska and Stalin are both Battlecruisers and have have 300mm+ Guns with Cruiser Like Accuracy. They dont need to go for Torpedo Runs. And Alaska and Stalin got 27mm. Only Moskwa has 25mm and only on parts of the Bow. Center is 50mm

Irgendwer muss Nunmal Schuld sein. *gg* Und die Community hat zu wenig Einfluss als das sie Schuld sein könnte Bleibt also nur ihr ^^

Its not Exaggerated at all. The Bismarck Sucks. Sorry to be Blunt but it really Sucks. And no the Pen is Great. In Fact its too Great. In Close Quarters Combat you often get Overpens even against Battleships. And the Accuracy is so Horrible that will still Miss even at 5km away... Thing is. The Small Calibre means you cant Overpen. So your Guns become Incredible useless against anyone who is Smart enough to Angle his Ship. Even Goddamn Cruisers can Bowtank you. Something I often abuse. When I play a Cruiser. i know I cannot Bow in and Rush a Nagato, Sinop or even a Colorado. Because they just Overmatch and Citadel me through the Nose. But against a Bismarck ? Yeah no Problem. Bow in and as soon as he Fired for 0 Damage Prepare the Torpedoes..... The thing is. Even with other BBs I tend to Hold Fire against Bowtanking Cruisers that got Torpedoes. Because I know I can Delete them when they turn around to Torpedo me. But with Bismarck even he Turns a Freaking 4km in front of my Ship. I Fire. And Guess what. My Shells land absolutely everywhere around him. But not in his Goddamn Citadel.... And Yes. Bow Citas are Common on German BBs. 32mm only means you dont get Overmatched. It does not mean your Invulnearble. As soon as your Angled as little as 20 Degrees. Or if the Enemy is 12km away and thus has Sufficient High Angle on his Shells. They can Pen and go Straight for your Citadel. Citadel Armor to the Front is Pretty weak on German BBs. So if they land they they almost always go into Cita....

Ah. Stimmt. Die 75 Marken sind ne neue Überschrift unter dem Artikel lol. Ich dachte die Gehören dazu. Schade das die nicht mit dazu gehören ^^ Danke :) Habs mal drüben rein geschrieben damit Crysantos bei mir auch nachguckt. Schauen wir mal was Passiert.

Schreib mich bitte auch mit auf die Liste. Hab jetz Zweimal Probiert und 3 mal Neu Eingeloggt. Aber keine Container oder andere sachen bekommen. Scheint ja auch das Ich nicht alleine bin damit ^^ Scheint wohl etwas Falsch gelaufen zu sein. Wie man so schön sagt. Wenn eine sache Schief geht gehen alle sachen Schief xD

It Depends on how Skilled you are and on how you like to Play. Kaga = Great Ability to just Spam the Enemy to Death with Torpedoes. Your Planes Drop like Flies. But just like Flies there is just so many of them that you dont really care. You do however need Balls for this one. Many Players are Scared due to the losses. And dont Realize that they can Ignore them. Kaga Squadrons are Kamikaze Attackers. You just Keep Dropping till the Squadron is gone. Shokaku = Great Ability to just Delete Enemy Cruisers and Citadel Enemy BBs. The AP Bombs are Absurdly Strong allowing for 20k+ Hits very Reliably against any Enemy Ship that is Stupid enough to Sail Straight or Sit behind an Island. On top the Torpedoes are Extremely Potent in Damage and the Rockets can Spam any DD to Death. Its likely the Easiest CV to Play right now. Because it has High Damage Output, Fair Reserves of Planes, Reasonable Survivability of Aircraft and you dont really need any Special Playstyle for it. Saipan = Contrary to Believe the Saipan is Extremely Good in the Current Update. Her Planes are Resilent and the Small Squadrons mean it doesnt care about the Manual Damage Burst at all. You basicly need 6 of these Manual Damage Burst to Destroy a Single Plane out of her Squadron. Or 3 if you use the 4 Point Extreme AA Skill. On top of that. Its Damage Output is off the Charts. Its bombs as well as its Torpedoes and its Rockets are Packing a Good Punch. But you need to know how to Manage Reserves. Because this CV tends to deplete its Reserves Fast if you do Stupid things like Suiciding them into a Blob. You can of course also use the German Graf Zeppelin Gunship. Which if you Skill it on Secondaries is basicly 2 DDs and 1 Light Cruiser Sailing around to Ruin the Life of anyone who thinks that Starting an Artillery Duel within 9.5km of a Graf Zeppelin is a Good Idea. This is is basicly the Horror of any Friesland and Atlanta Player. Because its Armor Shatters most low Calibre HE Shells and the Rain of Fire this thing Dishes out when your getting too close to it is just Absurd.... In exchange tough. In terms of Planes you are the Weakest T8 CV there is. You do less Damage and have more RNG in your Damage than any other CV. You dont have Big Reserves either and as most of your Weapons are Heavy Stuff you are Pretty bad in Dealing with Enemy DDs. Well unless the Enemy DD is within 9.5km of your Ship. Because then it will be Melting within Seconds....

You know exactly what you Did to deserve this response.... And now Stop tempting Minia.

1. The Vast Majority cannot be Horrible at this Game. Because the Game is about Beating other Players. Meaning that there will always be Top, Average and Bottom Ranks. And you can Repeat that Rubbish as much as you want. But Yes Bismarck is Vastly Underpowered. Thats a Simple Fact. And this is Wrong as well. And you can See that Pretty easily from the Statistics. For example. My Statistics on Amagi are vastly Better than on my Bismarck. Better Winrate, Better Damage, Better Kills. Yet. My Personal Rating for Amagi is much Lower. Why do you think that is ? :) I can tell you. Its because the Comparisson is done based on Average Results for the Ship. Bismarck is Incredible Underpowered. Thats why even with such Horrible Statistics as I got on Tirpitz I am still considered a Good Player for the Tirpitz. Meanwhile if I wanted to get 1600 PR for a Ship like Amagi which is actually Decent. I would have to Beat far far higher Average Numbers than what I got. So No. In Fact. If you give these Potatoes a Better Ship they will in Fact do way Better ;) 2. All my German BB are Secondary Builds. Heck even my Roon and my Graf Zeppelin are Secondary Builds. And Sorry. But this just wont make up for the Large Calibre High Damage Guns from other BBs. Also. German Battleships Suck at Bowtanking because their Firepower is castrated. I actually Explained that. So pls stop with that Pitiful Attempt of Implying that I would Play like this. Also thats more Irrelevant Rubbish. With the Skill Required to easily Take out 3 Potato BBs in a German BB. A proper Balanced BB from another Nation will easily take out 5 Potato BBs. And it will do it faster and while taking less Damage.... 4. Which is Irrelevant to the Topic because it goes for all BBs not just German ones. German ones Simply end up at the Bottom of the Scoreboard even more often because they are Underpowered and thus Require much more Skill to make Up for their Weaknesses. 5. Same what Unicums do with other Properly Balanced Ships. In case you didnt know this. The Statistics for the Top 5% of T8 BB dont look Different. A Highly Skilled Unicum with an Amagi will Perform Better than a Highly Skilled Unicum with a Bismarck. But to begin with. Since Potatoes can Obviously Perform much better with the other BBs. Yes WG Should Buff the Bismarck. Because Balance means that 2 Ships are Equal to each other in Power. So that if two Equally Skilled Players Clash with them you cant tell who will Win beforehand. If the Bismarck Requires a higher Skilled Player to Win than the other BBs. Then this is Evidence that Bismarck is Underpowered and needs to be Buffed. Oh and Please keep the Real World Insults out of this. I am right now Wondering how you have actually Survived in this World when you dont even know that a higher Spread of Shells will make it more likely that one Shell Hits something....

1. Well there is the Thing that I agree with Elazer on. RTS was Clearly not Balanced. But RTS could have been Balanced if they had Provided a Similar amount of Effort as they Poured into the Rework itself. 2. Well not Entirely. See my Personal Opinion is. That a CV Should become Similar Powerful as other Ships. This can be Achieved in Fact. For Example CVs could be Prevented from Spotting for the Team. Instead only Spotting for themselves and only Providing Map Markers on Targets they see to the Team. So the Team cant actually Fire on them Properly. Another Option would be Fuel. Squadrons could Simply have a Limited Timer on how long they can Stay in the Air. So that a CV gets a Limited Range of for example 30km before his Squadron Returns to the Carrier. This would Greatly Limit a CVs Ability to just Control the Entire Map. But the more Importand Part is to first make CVs less Frustrating for other Players. Because right now the Biggest Issue is that you cant do anything about it when your Attacked by a CV. And that is an Insanely Frustrating Experience. Thats why I made the Suggestion to Remove the Ability of Adjusting your Aim down to the last Second. Giving some Chance to the Attacked Ship to Dodge the Attack. 3. Ahh. Yeah. I know what you Mean. Its True that a Certain Set of Ships can Create a Truly Devastating Advantage by Playing Together. But this is also the Thing. Currently. You can actually use a Division to Create an Situation where you can Attack Ships from absolute Safety without them being able to do Anything about it due using the Abilities of 2 or more Different Ships. There is also Combinations which can Completely Shut Down any Destroyer Gameplay in their Targeted Area.... Thing is. Exactly these Combination Abilities for which you normally need 2-3 Ships in a Division. Is basicly what a CV can do all alone by Default. And Worse. CVs allow for even more Perverted Combinations. Something I am not Scared to Share because I dont mind if People try it. Is to have 2 Range Oriented Battleships with Spotter Planes and a CV which then right at the Start of the Battle goes ahead to Spot the Enemy CV so the 2 BBs can Snipe him. It takes some Skill to Hit on High Range of Course. But Taking out the Enemy CV like that is almost a Guarantee for Victory right now.....

1. Thats nice for you. But its pretty Irrelevant. Because this is the Global Stats for T8 BBs, I Sorted it by Damage and Removed the Ships which due to being New or being Event Limited do not have at least 1 Million Battles. You are of course Free to Sort it by other Stats if you like. But its Position will barely Change. On WR it is exactly the same. And on Experience it Switches Place with the Tirpitz.... Now I do have to Correct myself. Actually the Bismarck has moved up to 3rd Weakest Ship.... Dont know when that Happened. Last Time I looked it was Second Last before the Tirpitz. Not that it Changes much. One Person being Good with it is not exactly going to Change this Fact. Your a Good Player so you can make it Work. But the Vast Majority of the Playerbase does not have the Skills to Outbalance the Tremendous Disadvantage that an Underpowered Ship like this Poses. And thus wont do well in it. 2. My Stats for these are Pretty Bad. Except the Friedrich. So no Worries nobody is Contesting that. Dont know why I did better with the Friedrich. I played it exactly the same as the Bismarck actually. 3. Yep. Given the Number of Battles on your Account I would actually Expect you to know this. But Bad Accuracy actually makes it Easier to Score Hits. Because your Scattering Shots over an larger Area. The Problem is. It also makes it Harder to Score alot of Hits at once. 4. A Decent Game is an Opinion based thing Mate. And if you say that 50-100k per Decent Game is a Given with German Secondaries than you yourself seem to be doing very little Damage with your Main Guns. 5. Lol Yeah. Or at least it might do that if it wasnt Covered in Gigantic Superstructure which is Covering almost all of the 50mm Deck and thus provides an Easy Target for HE Shells. Well it does not Cover the Bow and Stern Deck Armor. But that is only 32mm to begin With. So Fat Luck with that.... The 50mm Covers only an Ridiculously Small Area. Meanwhile other T8 BB Ships get only 40mm and 37mm Deck Armor. But they got very small Superstructure only Covering 1/3 of the Deck And Guess what. 20cm HE Shells wont Pen these either.... 6. Fallacy and Impossible at that. The Scoreboards are done by Average Numbers. As such the Vast Majority of Players will Automaticly be Average. With People Deviating from that Average either Upwards or Downwards. So Players cant Really all be Populating the Bottom of the Scoreboard as its Reserved for the Worst Players. 7. Sorry. But I am not Skilled enough to actually get any Decent Results with Underpowered Ships. I am just an Average Potato. So I only do well in Ships that are Properly Balanced and thus dont Require an Unicum Player to Outbalance its Flaws. If they ever Balance Bismarck Properly so it can actually Hold up against other T8 BBs I will consider Playing it again. Before that Happens I am not Interested in Bothering with it again.

Thing is Potatoes dont do Bad in it. As its extremely easy to Play actually. Its very Forgiving of Mistakes and you dont need any Skills to Play it. Its Citadel will Forgive you for Broadsiding. Its Accuracy is so Crab that even if Aim bad you still hit. And the Secondaries only need a Captain of Sufficient level they dont need Player Skill. Your Guns Reload Fast as well giving you more Chances to hit. And your also Fairly Tough to Crack when do something Stupid. But thats at the same time also the Problem. If your a Skilled Player. All of this Starts becoming a Negative. Your Accuracy being Bad helps you landing Hits when you cant Aim. But if you can Aim it means you will never be able to Reliably Hit Salvos regardless of your Skills. Your Citadel being Protected is Nice but if you know how to Play you wont show Broadside to Enemy Ships anyways. And Suddenly that Advantage is not an Advantage anymore because your Gun Angles are Crab and you simply cant really Angle without Halfing your already Weak Firepower. And your Advantage of Fast Firing Guns ends up a Disadvantage because you have to Present your Broadside way more often than others. You being Tough remains an Advantage and its the only Advantage you got. Because its the only thing that doesnt turn on you suddenly. But your not that much more Tough than other BBs so compared to the other Nations Advantages you end up just being an Exp Pinata which Burns Easily. Now on Lower Tiers. This is absolutely Great. Barely anyone knows how to Play. So German BBs are often Really Tough. But on Higher Tiers when People actually Learned how to Play. German BBs become a hindrance rather than a Help. The Insanely low Damage Output compared to other BBs. Especially when Angling the Ship. Just Castrates your Damage Potential against the Enemy. And with the Average Range of Engagement Increasing. The Turtleback becomes useless. Because it only works on Close Range. But on Close Range your own Damage Output even with Citadels becomes too weak to Compete with the massive Damage Output of Other BBs even if they only get Normal Pens on you. Not because your Damage Output is Low by Default. But because even on 8km away your Accuracy and the low Number of Guns just Ends up with you Hitting absolutely Nothing.

That a Joke ? You open a Topic saying Bismarck is not Weak and then you cant even Provide a Series of Screenshots of it being at the Top Position ? Bismarck is currently the Second Weakest BB in T8 after the Tirpitz.... Thats a Fact backed by the Global Statistics and cannot be Denied. Thats all there is to it.

Nobody wants to hear what you do with Underage Ships when they are alone...... Well. It nearly Died during 0.8.6.... But then WG had to Revive it by making CVs Ridiculously Overpowered again.... Which likely wont do anything. Because they dont have enough Oxygen to reach CVs and because they will likely be fairly Easy to Hit with Rockets once they Surfaced. Will keep this one a Bit Short as we dont have that much of a Disagreement anyways. More like we met each other on the wrong Foot. (And Yes I know its still going to end up a long Text anyways. I am just Incapable of not Explaining things lol) This is Pretty much the Case right now Already. One Reason why Especially less Skilled CVs right now Claim CVs are not Overpowered. Is because they Generally end up Losing. If the Enemy CV is Vastly better than you. Even if he cant really Stop you from doing Damage. He will Turn the tides of Battle extremely Fast on you. I know this not only because I often do it myself and then can Watch how my Team Enjoys an Severe Advantage right away which will give Victory to them. But also because I have been on the Receiving end of this when another CV Player just was better than me. And thus I was Always Faced with the Situation of him Killing Priority Ships of my Team. Keeping my Team Spotted and on top causing my Attacks to be Delayed by getting into my Way Dropping Fighters between me and Importand Ships of his own Team. And the Disadvantage you Face from this is just Devastating to both you and your Team. Of course we are Limited to 1 CV. Even now 1 CV is so Overpowered that its Worth more than a Full Division of Coordinated Players. If you had 3 the Game would basicly be CVs seeing who can Massacre Enemy Surface Ships Faster.... Thats why I suggested something from a Different Direction. You See. No matter what we do with AA and Damage etc. We will never Solve this Situation. If CVs do enough Damage to Matter and get through the AA They will always be Overpowered. If they can be Prevented from Striking by AA or if despite getting through AA they just dont Deal Significant Damage. They will be Underwhelming. Thats just how it is. It wont Change Thats why I would Prefer a System which Involved an Interaction between the Players. As then you can actually Create a Situation where the CV getting Through or not is much more Skill Dependent on Both Sides. I find it more Fun when DDs Stop in a Capture Point. See my Planes and Smoke Up. And then are Surprised when I Kill them. Because I dont see any other Smoke Circles Popping up thus knowing that the DD has not Moved away from the Center of the Smoke.... You would Laugh how many DDs think that they are Safe if they just Press Smoke and Halt their Engines.... (Or maybe not. Your not here since Yesterday after all) Best ones are of course the ones who then Cry in Chat about Aimbot and Cheating... As for there being other other Factors. (What the hell does Comp mean ???) Of course there is always other Factors. Even CVs as Overpowered as they Are. Cannot Completely Carry a Game Alone. They can make up for ALOT of the Team. But your Team just all goes Lemming one Side and then Gets Flanked from the Center as the Enemy Pushed forward and is now Shooting Happily into your Teams Broadside. You simply cannot do anything about it. But CVs Influence on the Battle is Tremendous Right now. I would Dare Claiming that at least 50% of all the Influence of the Match comes from the CVs.

Wont do much about it. If it stops being Fun I stop Playing. In Fact after 0.8.7 my own time Playing this Game has gone Down by about 80% and I instead have been looking at War Thunder again. Not doing it out of Spite or to put one on WG. Its just a Simple matter of having Fun in the Game or not. And right now. I am not having Fun because too much of the Match Depends on me being Lucky enough to have a Decent CV Player or because I need to Play CV and Carry pretty Hard which is not very Fun because I am Responsible for the Teams Victory. So I dont Play as much and Spend my Time Differently. Thats all there is to it.

1. I would almost believe it if you werent doing pretty bad in the other CVs that according to you yourself are less Challenging :) 2. Thats Fine. But given that you did not even bother Trying in 0.8.5 I can easily See that the Reason for you being up there is that unlike others you Simply only Play when CVs are Confirmed to be Ridiculously Overpowered and Refuse to Play whenever AA was Buffed a bit. 3. So your Telling me you can Dodge my Rocket Attacks from a CV ? Could you Provide Evidence for that ? :) Could you show me how a DD Dodges Rocket Attacks from a CV ? :) If your refering to a DD Dodging Torpedoes Sorry. But then its your Lack of Skill in using the Right Attacks. :) If a DD Pumps AP Shells into the Side Armor Belt of a BB that BB is not Defending itself against Attacks. Its just that the DD is too Stupid to choose the Right Weapon for the Job ;) 1. Meanwhile you dont even Try to Win Arguments and Instead just Troll around. 2. Its the Truth tough. I wont Deny that I got an Affinity for CVs. But the Pattern for almost all of the People here is the same as Mine. Meaning that in all cases their Stats for the other Classes are Roughly in the same Range. While their CV Stats are one or two Cuts above. Meanwhile the only People I find which have CV Stats that are Lower than their other Classes. Is People which basicly got Thousands of Games in other Classes but not even 100 on CVs. (Post Rework CV Games only of course) 3. Winrate is actually Antiproportional here. The Problem is. The more Powerful your Ship is. The more Influence you have in Battle. As a CV your Influence right now is Tremendous. So if your Better than the Enemy CV you will Win ALOT if your Worse than the Enemy CV you will Lose ALOT. Thats the Counterpoint of Overpowered Classes Unfortunately. If you dont have the Skill to actually Carry your Team you end up Losing alot. 4. Does he ? No Offense Intended. I dont have Saipan and I wont get yet Another CV just to Prove a Point. But from what I can tell. His Performance in the other CVs which supposedly are Easier. Is way below the Saipan. And from the Receiving End. I actually consider a Saipan extremely Dangerous. Its Planes are Resilent as Heck Compared to other CVs. They basicly Come with Pre Installed Survival Expert HP by Default. And while not as Fast as the Planes of GZ. They are Pretty Fast. Moreover its Payload is rather Impressive. Comparing it to my Favorite CV the Graf Zeppelin. He Carries Launches 6 Rockets with 60mm Penetration at 5400 Damage each. Thats 32k Alpha. And with that Penetration that means he can easily get 10k Hits even on BBs. The GZ already has a few more Rockets and gets 35k Alpha but only 40mm Penetration. And even that already Results in Good Damage Counts against even BBs. The Torpedoes are way better than GZ. With Shorter Arming Distance and Higher Damage. 26k vs the GZs 16k. And the Bombs well. 11.2k Alpha Dropping 4 HE Bombs in a Way less RNG Pattern than GZ. Meaning that these Bombs with Simple HE Penetration get the SAME Damage that you get with Graf Zeppelin when you Score a Double Citadel..... Plus the Bonus of Fire Chance ;) Dont get me Wrong there Mate. In 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 the Saipan clearly was Hard to Play. But now ? I am not so Sure Really. 5. The bar for that Right Hands is way too low then. 1. Thats 1% on your Second Highest. Its 5% and more to the Others. ^^ 2. Ah. So thats the Statement you Meant. I cant Read your Mind lol. As for these 2. They are not Regulars. So I dont care lol. 3. K/D is Telling of your Risk vs Reward Situation. So that as well. But Generally you should Look at all Stats and all Abilities when Comparing a Class. There is no One Magic Stat you can Check on to See how a Class is Doing. (Winrate is useful to Judge a Player. But for a Class its useless. Because as I said. Winrate is Meaningless here because the Average Winrate for all Classes is Roughly the Same as all Classes get Matches against themselves by Default....) For Example. High Damage can be Telling if its really High Damage. But whats also Telling is the Exp Gained. (Of course Adjusted by the Exp Gain Factor for the Respective Class/Ship) because this Tells you how much that Class does in Average. (And Yes you can Damage Farm and Exp Farm. But this goes for both Sides and the Averages of the Entire Class wont be very Affected by this) We could also Talk about Simple Stats like what the Ship can actually Do. Like The DPS, Range and Accuracy with Attacks. Thing is we need to Talk about the Total Package of it. A BB has high Average Damage and also High Alpha Damage as a Ship. But lets Face it. Most of that Damage comes from Attacking BBs and some from Cruisers. Almost nothing of it comes from Killing DDs for example. And while a BB has High Alpha Damage its Real Damage is tremendously Lower due to its Extremely Bad Accuracy. 4. I dont like the Idea to Nerf the Damage of CVs further. It already has Fairly Low Damage. And the thing is. A Blank Damage Nerf always means that Literally Everyone in that Class is Hurt. Sure you can Put CV Damage even Lower. it will Alleviate the Complaints about CVs. But at the same Time CVs will start to Feel Useless and then Complain. I might not Sound like it that Often. But I actually want CV Players to be Happy with the Situation as well. I want CVs to not be Overpowered. I dont want CVs to be useless. 5. The Thing you Should Watch out for in the Replay is actually not the Damage. But they way it Influences the Battles. I could easily do 100k more Damage if I farmed Some BB which has no Hope of me Missing it and which cant really Defend itself against me either. But Farming Damage does not Win the Game. CVs have 3 Special Abilities which make it Insanely Powerful. And the Replay Showcases that Pretty Extremely. A. CV can Strike Whoever he Wants. And thus can Choose Importand Targets to for example Finish them or Block Them etc etc. B. A CV can Ruin any Attempt at Sneak Attacks by Spotting and keeping your Spotted. Which is Especially Lethal for DDs. C. You cannot take Cover against a CV. A CV does not care if your in Cover or out of Range of all others. You will never be outside Range or in Cover against a CV. Thats what Broke the Enemies Neck there. Not the Damage Dealt. But the Timing and Targets it was Dealt to. I Systematically Removed Threats and kept my Team in an Advantage. An Ability CVs take to the Maximum. You just cant do this with other Classes. Your bound to Targets in your Range and with Line of Fire to them.

If he thinks thats a Result telling how OP CVs are. Take a Game from me in T8. Do you know what kind of Roflstomping it is when your Top Tier as a CV right now ? https://replayswows.com/replay/62110#stats

Mate. Read my Statement again. I said. Its not that I am Potato in all Classes BUT CV. It is that CVs are so Overpowered that THEY ARE THE ONLY CLASS WHERE I DO NOT SUCK ENOUGH TO BE POTATO IN IT. :) In case you do not Understand this kind of Indirect Statement. It basicly Translates to. "I would be Potato in ALL Classes if CVs were not so Overpowered that you dont need any Skill in them to not look like a Potato" :)" 1. Your Stats tell a Different Story. Because just like everyone else. You got Better Stats in CVs than in your other Classes. But hey Yeah why be Honest when you can be Loud and Insulting right ^^ 2. Oh and where did mtm want RTS back ? Meanwhile Capra seems to be more Concerned with BB AA than with anything you mentioned :) 3. Yep. You are talking BS. Pls dont do it. And Yes. We really have enough People doing that in other Topics as well. Thank You. No Reason to Copy them. :P As for Stats. Oh not at all. Stats can be a very Fundamental Claim. Just not when you Bring Stats which are not Relevant to the Topic. And The Winrate for a Class is always 49.X% Because every Victory for a Ship of that Class is Automaticly also a Loss for a Ship of that Class. Meaning the only reason it Diverts from exactly 50% is Draws and Latenight MM where the MM simply lacked the People to make a Proper Match and you then end with BS like 3xT8 CVs and 2 DDs vs 2xT8 and 1xT6 CVs with 1 BB and 1 DD... If you want to Talk Statistics I am all Ears. But Winrate for a Class is just not really meaningful to Talk about. 4. Well of Course it would need Testing. After all it would be a Somewhat New System. I am also Sure it would take Further Adjustments than just this. After all if Surface Ships Suddenly get a Chance to Dodge Attacks the Damage Nerf to CVs might end up making them Useless. Hence it could for example be Required to also Buff Damage of CVs again. So that the Attacks they Succesfully Land actually Deal Proper Damage. But thats something we wont know more about till WG gives it a Try. Assuming they ever do give it a Try. 5. I butted Heads with mtm before. As I said I did not Intend to mix into that. I really was Limiting my Case to the Points Above. First being that most of us who are Regular in this Topic are actually NOT DD Players Complaining here. Because they really are not. In Fact several of the Players here which are now on our Side. Are CV Players which were Defending CVs at First but got Turned around due to Others and Me Showing them in Replays and Training Rooms how things work and why CVs are Overpowered. That and the other thing that WR really Says nothing about Class Performance. 1. Of course we are allowed to have an Opinion. :) But my Statement was that there is Several Good CV Players here Saying CVs are Overpowered. So you as someone calling himself a Potato in CVs are not Challenging that Statement :) 2. Actually you dont lol. When your AA Fires you just Press O in the rough Direction of the Marker. Or you just Ignore it Actually. Because it really makes no Difference. No Aiming Required. I guess you can make a Game out of it and Try to Aim for the Aircraft. But you dont need to Actually. You just need to Press O while either looking Left or Right for it to work. You actually Aiming for or even Seeing the Incoming Aircraft is Irrelevant to this. Not that I expect you to know this cause you clearly want this System to be Useless and thus of course would not Notice such things ^^. Compared to that. If you didnt Pay Attention in the Old System. You ended up having the Sector on the Wrong Side and then Needed 12 Seconds to actually put it to the Side of the Enemy. By which Time he might have Switched Sides again and leaving you Naked. 3. Of course you Think it Works Great :) You according to your Statement. Are a Potato CV. So for you it is absolutely Great when AA is Useless. :) In Fact if they Remove AA from Ships so you Could Bomb without any Opposition at all. You would likely consider that Great as well :) Thing is. The People who got to Put up with this Bullcrab dont Find it Great at all. Because Nobody wants to be the Turkey in a Turkey Shoot. 4. Nope. Your just Blaming them for your own Lack of Skill :) The only one Responsible for Hitting with CV Attacks. Is the CV himself. If you Miss with CV Attacks. Then YOU DID IT WRONG :) As Simple as that :)

1. Actually that is Wrong. I am not Potato in all Classes other than CVs. Its just that CVs are so Overpowered right now that I just dont suck enough to be Potato in them. 2. Thats a very Selective Perception you got there ^^ And No. Sorry but I think there is exactly ONE Person who misses RTS and thats solely because he says it was Broken as well but he saw a chance to fix it :P As for not Touching T8 or higher. I dont even know one to be honest. All of us here saying CVs are OP mostly use T8 CVs and do have T10 CVs. 3. I am just Correcting some BS Claims you made. Dont Complain to me about this. If you dont to be Corrected dont post BS like CV Winrate lol. 4. As for Ways Forward. No Offense. But Siggestion would just be Buried in Massive Topics like this one. So I will keep the Suggestions Seperate ;) Oh and No. Even in the Forum your already yelling and screaming way too much. Not going to endanger my ears by going into voicechat with some getting ragefits this fast.

1. Nothing. But it Defeats your own Argument. 2. But you just said it :) 3. Hahahahahahahahaha. Yeah. Super Skill based 3.5% Damage xD And No. Sorry. But AA Management takes no Skill. Unlike before where you had to keep your Sector in Place. Now you just Press a Button with no effort at all xD Not that it actually matters. The extra Damage from using that System is so Neglectable that Ignoring the System alltogether makes no real Difference. ^^ But thanks for the Lols Your on a Spree today with making Silly Jokes like this ^^ Oh but do me one Favor. Pls Stop Blaming others for your Lack of Skill in Properly Aiming Attack Runs. CV Attacks cannot be Dodged. The Only one Responsible for you missing is you yourself.

1. You just said yourself that your a Potato.... 2. So your saying that @L0V3_and_PE4CE@El2aZeR As well as me are just DD Players crying about CVs ? Erm Yeah... No Offense but I think I can safely refrain from bothering with your claims there. I dont think even the most Stupid Person on this Planet would take you seriously on that one Mate....