Sunleader

Welp...

The Reason is that CVs are absurdly overpowered and absurdly frustrating for everyone else. There is absolutely nothing you can do about them as a Surface Ship. Its basicly like your playing Counterstrike and one Player on each Team is allowed to use an Invisibility Cheat. And well. As a CV you are that Player. So you can Expect everyone to Hate you like the Pest.

Hindenburg is Plenty Scary already. The 12x20cm Guns with their 6k AP Alpha are pretty Strong. And with 2x4 Torpedoes per side your not a Welcome Guest closeby. Its just not such a Good Brawler as the Roon. The Roon not only has a Pretty decent Secondary Battery that can dish out pretty good on whoever gets too close. It also takes less Damage from Broadside Fire. Roon if your 6km to a Yamato you go Full Broadside. And you mostly get Overpens because the only way to Citadel or Full Pen you. Is to Hit you below the Waterline. The Turtleback which cover the Citadel above the Waterline is too Steep angled to Penetrate. But with Hindenburg the part of the Citadel which is above Waterline is not as Angled. Worse thanks to the Thicker Armor you wont be Overpenned either. So you get an extra Target Area where Citadels and Full Pens happen.

I wish I could claim this wasnt the case. Unfortunately I am not a Liar....

The Second thing is exactly the Issue. Hindenburg Citadel Turtleback when you Shoot from roughly 6km away. Gives you an Impact Angle of about 32-34 Degrees. And the AutoRicochet Appears only when you have less than 30 Degrees. 0-30 degrees -> auto ricochet 30-45 degrees -> chance to ricochet 45-90 degrees -> ricochet doesn't occur On Roon the Angle is way Steeper. Impact Angle for Shots on it from Close Range is only about 22-24 Degrees. Which is less than 30 Degrees and thus will Automaticly Ricochet So against Roon, as the 40mm cant be Overmatched by anything in the Game, anything that Hits the Turtleback Slope will Ricochet without any Penetration Checks On the Hindenburg however even tough it has 45-60mm. You are not Guaranteed to Ricochet. You have a Chance to Ricochet and then a Normal Penetration Check. And well. Most BBs can actually do that.

It makes a Difference because of the Auto Ricochet Mechanics. On Roon the Angle is Steeper. And on Close Range causes Automatic Ricochet against anything that does not Overmatch it. On Hindenburg however its no longer as Steep. So you just need to have enough Penetration :) Your Screenshots seems to Support that actually. You got 4 Citadels. Which is 2 more Citadels on Hindenburg than on Roon. And the 2 Citadels on Roon seems to have both been Underwater Penetrations of the Citadel. As I said. If you look at the Armor Viewer you see the Roon has a much Steeper angle on its Turtlebacks. And 40mm cant be Overmatched. So it will Automaticly Bounce anything on Close Range. Hindenburg is Thicker. But it does not have the Steep Angle and thus wont Profit from the Automatic Ricochet. I think thats why I tend to get more Citadels with Hindenburg than with the Roon.

Not that it Changes anything. Because regardless of WG toughts on the matter. CVs are not Balanced and are still an Issue. Thats a Fact. So the Topic will still keep being here on the Frontpage pretty much permanently. Moreover. If the Topic is no longer Sticky it also means that we will see much more New CV Topics soon. We will See if it stays as a not Sticky Topic for Long. As we will see much more new CV Topics if there is no Sticky Thread. As well as lots of CV Talk in Feedback and other Topics clogging up there.

That would have been my Favored Solution as well. Unfortunately I dont have BBs above the 420mm on my GK so my Ability to actually Test this properly is rather Limited. Because lets face it. With GK you can often Shoot even on US and British Cruisers which are Generally pretty easy to Citadel and wont get Citadels from 6-7km away because the Spread is such ********.... Given that unlike the other guy you seem to be Sincere in that and not just provoking me. I.ll try to get some Replays done on this. I am going to Play it for the Unique Upgrade anyways. So that should not pose a Problem. Sure. Because I think that Hindy is Generally not a Good a Ship and this wasnt just about its Armor being so much easier to Citadel than Roon... I liked the Roon Better. As its clearly the Superior Brawler. But Hindenburg is not such a Bad Ship actually. I like the Firepower of it quite a bit. Thats what I did. And Yes. Hindenburg has Slightly Thicker Armor. But as Stated above. I also saw something else. Which is that the Roons Citadel Turtleback is Angled much more Steeply than the Hindenburgs. Roons Citadel Turtleback will result in most Shells Fired Close Range on it. Just being Auto Ricochet. Because the Angle is less than 30 Degrees. But on Hindenburg the Angle is higher. Its Thicker but its above 30 Degrees Impact Angle so the Auto Ricochet Mechanic does not Apply here. Meaning if you got enough Penetration you will still get into the Citadel Thats Fine. I am mostly about the Difference between Hindenburg and Roon. In Roons I have several Times Brawled with Enemy Ships like Kremlin and Musashi etc and didnt get Citadelled. With Hindenburg however this doesnt seem to work at all.

1. Fact is I did with the Roon and Won. Fact is I did with the Hindenburg and Lost. I dont care for your Opinions on this because I know what actually happened when I tried. So is the Higher Angle on the Roons Citadel Turtleback. Which according to these Game Mechanics means that the Roon can Autobounce even Yamato Shells while the Hindenburg can not. Of course you might still do it. The Underwater Citadel Part is only 20mm and Flat on both Ships. So you can Citadel em with Underwater Shots. But its much Harder to Citadel Roon than Hindenburg. 2. I Joined the Game in 2012 during the Beta. When did you Guys Join if I might Ask ? Not that it Really Matters. Because you could be here since 1999 and it would mean nothing. Because the Game has Changed Tremendously since then. And See Mate. After Realizing that you guys wont Provide any Helpful Information I went ahead and simply Googled. And Strangely enough what I found was that apparently short before the CV Rework. Hindenburg Armor was Nerfed and suddenly got Citadelled pretty Easily. While before that it was actually next to Impossible to Citadel. Take a Guess..... 3. And Yes. Sorry. But if you cant even Read my Question and just come me with the usual L2P Comments. Then with all due Respect. PLEASE DO NOT CARE ANYMORE! Your Answers do not Help anyone. Even less when your too lazy to bother reading the Question. For Heavens Sake. You dont even have the Hindenburg..... So far. All you did was basicly tell me L2P with no usable Information whatsoever. Showing me Screenshots and Replays FROM DIFFERENT SHIPS WHICH PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY from the Ship I asked something about.

Get used to it. CV Balancing is Finished. Now on your Knees and Pray to your CV Overlords before they Wipe you off the Game Forever.

No Offense to you. But I am asking you about this happening. I dont give a crab about you believing me or not. You dont believe me ? Fine with me. I.ll simply consider it as you got no Idea and thats all there is to it. I actually said this in my Opening Post. So you being in this Topic means it was there before you posted. But that aside. And Maybe Read what I talked about. ROON. You know the T9 German Cruiser. I could use that thing and go Brawl with a Freaking Yamato without being Citadelled. So why the Hell is Hindenburg suddenly Getting Citadelled so easily ??? My Question was why the Hindenburg is so much easier to Citadel than the Roon was. But why did I even Ask. I should have Expected that I wont get any useful Answers on this here and will just meet the usual L2P rubbish. In the Meantime I went ahead and Checked it myself. And the Answer is rather Simple. 0-30 degrees -> auto ricochet 30-45 degrees -> chance to ricochet 45-90 degrees -> ricochet doesn't occur From the Wiki...... If you Strip off the External Armor on Roon and Hindenburg you notice that Hindenburg Turtleback is Angled around 60 Degree Upwards so Shells Hit it with a bit over 30 Degrees Angle. So its not Autobouncing any Shells. If its Hit by Sufficient Penetration Power its going to be Breached. Roon Citadel however is Angled about 70 Degrees.... So Incoming Shells will meet it at a bit over 20 Degrees which means they get Autobounced. Thats why Roon Citadel is so much better than Hindenburg Citadel...

I think I just Explained that I got Citadelled from like 6km away. Do you guys actually ever Read what I am saying ?

Well apparently not lol. Because I keep being Citadelled by almost every Single BB Salvo. Including the ones from 6-8km And Yes. I am sure. Because I can barely Heal back any of the Damage. If it was just Several Pens it should at least Heal some of the Damage back. If I lose half the Ships HP in a Salvo and dont even get a Full Heal back then this is clearly not Normal Pens.

Not really. Grosser Kurfürst has an Upgrade from 406mm to 420mm Guns. Z52 can Upgrade Torpedos. Shimakaze Upgrades Torpedos as well. Conqueror used to have an Upgrade for 457mm Guns but it got removed and added as a new Ship (Thunderer) T10 Ships being able to Research Weapons is halfwat common. For CVs its likely also due to them not having a T9 Ship. Thus WG giving them some extra Grind to get the Full T10.

Alpha Predator is CV right now. No BB holds a Candle to that lol.

Is anyone Surprised that CVs will not just Spot Subs at roughly same range as DDs but will also easily do damage to them on Periscope Depth? I am not.....

I will Comment on that when I get Home as I need to check the Replay Myself first to see what Game it was. It actually matters alot. 1. Lower Tiers meet way less Radar Cruisers. Thats a massive Difference. Because it allows a very different Gameplay. You cant do that in T10 2. Z52 is very long, very big, very slow at turning. It is incredible bad at Evading and very easy to hit. And worse. Most Cruisers wont Overpen it. Instead dealing full Pen Damage. Your chances to Escape Radar are very low for Z52 3. Z52 has very Low DPS and very Short Smoke. You cant play like US DD and just sit at the 10km mark of enemy Ships firing away for 2 minures so you can just run if someone has Radar. Z52 has to get very close if it wants to do anything. Because at anything beyond 6km you will lose Artillery Duels with pretty much even Shimakaze because you got pitiful Gun Accuracy and lowest DPS of all T10 DDs and because any Cruiser on Enemy Team might Delete you if your Spotted. So not going into Radar Range is pretty hard if you want to do anything. As for the Picture. I assume any of the lower 4 Positions and all of them will suffice to radar the Cap. Assuming the Radar Cruiser Spawned there and not on other side. And Yeah how should I avoid Radar here without it resulting in me getting stuck behind an Island.

Problem is that most Maps have more than just once such Place. And I cant know which one the Radar Cruiser will be. I also dont choose which cap I start on. So even if I have a Map where one Cap is in Range of an Island its possible that then I need to go to the Cap on the opposite side which will take 2 minutes and leave my entire Flank without a DD and pretty much always results in that Flank (aside from cursing on me) not Advancing a Single Inch towards the Enemy anymore and staying 20km behind the Empty Capture Point out of Fear that an Enemy DD might Torp them. Moreover. Many Maps have an Island close to every Single Cap. So what then ? Should I just not go for Caps again ? People in here told me that I should ALWAYS go for the Capture Point no matter what. And that if I cant do it like that I am a Noob who is simply not good enough :) So how do I take a Cap which is Guarded by a Radar Cruiser ? :) If there is lots of Islands in the Capture Point the General Problem is not the Radar but me getting Stuck. The Problem which many People tend to Ignore unfortunately. Is that Z52 is a pretty Cumbersome and Big DD with extremely short Smoke Duration. Once its Stuck in a Confirmed Position it could just as well be Dead because it wont get out of it thanks to its Bad Concealment and Bad Maneuverability. I dont use an Island which I can shoot over when I use a Radar Cruiser. Any Island Providing Cover really is enough for this. So I dont think this will work too well.

Then I wont ever be Good at Z52 ;) I dont have the kind of time as to Spend it on a Ship I dont find Fun to Play :)

:) Dont laugh. Late at Night last week I had a Battle with 2xT6 and 1xT8 CV on each Side. And 3 yes you heard that right. 3 Surface Ships on each Team xD Unfortunately I fear Double T8 CV Games will become far more Common again thanks to how Overpowered they are right now :(

You can Laugh. But I actually got the Hindi and I liked the Roon better as well. The Roon was like a Mini Battleship. Its Secondary Battery paired with Hydro made it a Complete Nightmare for Enemy DDs in Close Quarters as well. I really liked that. The Hindenburg despite being called mini Battleship sometimes just doesnt give me that feeling. Your more of a Hipper on Steroids. Now dont get me wrong. The Hindenburg is an Awesome Brawler. Its Freaking Damage Output with AP is just Absurd. And with the Accuracy you dont even care about it if someone Bowtanks you cause you can just Pummel his Superstructure. Or on Higher Ranges just Spam him with HE. And with 2x4 Torpedoes on each Side your really not someone anyone wants to have closer than 6km to him. But the Armor feels much less Effective. I get far more Citadels in Hindenburg which I didnt with the Roon. And without the Secondary Battery you also lack alot of Pressure against DDs. I actually Really like the Roon Better somehow.

Cant tell you that one either. I got Ark Royal because I needed a Good T6 CV Anyways and like to have Premiums for Money Farming. But that thing was a mistake.... It sure is a Damage Dealer when you Reach the Target. As the Damage Output per Squadron and Drop is certainly Exceptional for a T6 CV. But your Battlefield Control is nonexistent with this Slow Plane Speed. The Biggest Advantage of a CV to Freely Choose Targets and Support the right Places at the Right Time completely Falls away for this thing because you need Hours to Reach anything with this Planes... I got no Idea how People can Seriously manage this thing for DD Hunting. But well. I am not good at DD Hunting in the First Place. So maybe its just me being bad at this xD Well. Winning right now is a Challenge in itself. With the Potato Teams we got thanks to the Event again you never know when a Free T-Shirt Giveaway is Sheduled in some Map Corner or on some Island where your Entire Team suddenly gets Stuck and Refuses to move on. Leaving the Enemy with 3 Caps and an Advantage where even a Good CV cant Carry it anymore.

Well and thats a Cossack. Not a Z52. I dont have a Cossak :) Mate. The thing is you keep Talking about me being Wrong. But your not telling me how to do it right. I cant tell how to Deal with Radar from a Post Battle Screenshot. And telling me to Plan ahead is fine and Dandy. But you guys told me that I should ALWAYS go for the Capture Point. How am I supposed to Avoid Radar when I am set to go for the Capture Point :) ? I am not some Psychic who can tell where Radar Cruisers are before they get Spotted you know. If you know a trick to know where Radar Cruisers are beforehand and thus stay away from them I am all ears :) Just telling me to plan ahead is not really helping me when I have no Idea how to Plan for a Radar Cruiser :)

Nice and Dandy. But I dont need Advice for Russian DD nor for Gearing. I dont have either. I got a Z52 :) See Mate. In Yugumo I dont have much Trouble Dealing with Radar either. Yugumo is Small and Maneuverable. it can Evade Fire from Long Range pretty Good. But Z52 is a Brick. Most Cruisers will Reliably Hit you from 12km away because you cant Really Turn fast enough to Dodge Shells that were Fired at you. So the most common Result when I am Radared and not behind an Island. Is that I am Dead. :) Even more so when I just Slowed down to Smoke. This actually happens in one of the Replays. And the Result is I am dead a Few Seconds Later. Also. its not about Believing. You say you Deal with Radar. But your doing it using a Gearing. And you havnt told me how you deal with Radar :) I am pretty sure. Your way of Dealing with Radar does not Involve Slowing Down inside Smoke 5km away from an Enemy DD :)

No you Cant. See Mate. I am not entirely New to the Game. I know that I can use Hydro to Fire at Enemy DDs from Smoke. Big News when you Grinded German DD Line up to Tier 10 you know. Thing is. In T10 you pretty much ALWAYS have a Goddamn Radar Cruiser in the Enemy Team. Sometimes you have 2 or 3 even.... And Yes. The Worcester was 12km away and has 10km Radar. It wont need much to Cross 2km Distance you know. And if it does I would be Dead in the Water. I always Check the Ship List. I even know the US Cruisers usually got 10km the Soviet ones 12km Radar Range. But I cant exactly tell where the Enemy Radar Cruiser are before I see them. And most of them have a Concealment of just slightly more than their Radar Range. Moreover. Radar Cruisers aint Stupid either. First thing I do as Radar Cruiser is take an Island from where my Radar Covers the Capture Point. Because that way if Capture Point Lights up Red. Guess what Lights up inside that Capture Point.... This is one of the Reasons why I stopped going for Capture Points that mucn.