Sunleader

Just saying. But Youtube has quite a few Videos about Submarine Testserver. So at least someone apparently got Access.

Fair Warning. I suck in this Ship. So if your a Noobteam I cant carry you and we will lose. Responses are mixed depending on how much Humor People have.

The Sigma Nerf to Vladi is fairly Significant. Its still Superior to Bismack. Thanks to the Triple Turrets and the better base Dispersion of course. But with 1.8 its at least not a Sniper anymore. Kremlin *Nerf* is Joke tough.

If you got no more Arguments just Admit your Wrong or simply Stop Posting. Provocations and Personal Attacks only show Bad Character and make sure everyone knows that you lost the Argument and are Salty about it.

Come on Wargaming. UK already had the 45xm Guns on Conqueror and now got an Extra Ship instead with the Thunderer. USA got the Ohio now which is basicly a Montana with 45cm Guns. Now Man up and Give German the H42 with 48cm Twin Guns. Germany really needs some Big Guns. And now you dont need to worry about anyone even potentially thinking that you might actually like Germany as you already Pushed out Big Guns for the other Nations anyways. I know we wont get the 50cm Guns. Because then Germany would have something others dont. Which cannot happen even if Hell Freezes over because you dont like Germany for whatever reason. (Yeah I know its because everyone already plays Germany anyways and you dont want 80% of your Playerbase being sitting on German Ships) So get on it. Give us the H43 with the 48cm Gun Configuration :P

This is actually Incorrect. Because this is where the Montanas Legendary Module comes into play. Reducing Rudder Shift time by 30% down to about 16 Seconds while at the same time giving you the Buff on Damage Control. See Mate. The Reason why People tell you to get a GK yourself and Try this. Is because you with your Montana might think this Works. This is the Turret Arcs of the Montana (on the Left) and Grosser Kurfürst (on the Right) That giving you an Idea why the GK needs to much longer to Move between 60 Degree Angle and having its Rear Guns Fire ? With Montana you can nearly Fire your Rear Guns while staying at 60 Degrees. So of course with that small Difference its not much of a Problem to Turn in and out to use your Rear Guns and Simply rely on the Autbounce. But as you can see with GK. You Simply dont have this kind of Turret Arcs. You have to Reduce your Angling to about 40 Degrees before you can use your Rear Guns on the Enemy. As for Yamato. Well. I personally simply dont use my Rear Turret. Its just 1 Turret so its not worth Exposing my Broadside for it. So Yeah. Right back at you. Check your Facts.... And Mate. I care for the Complete Situation. It makes no Sense to only consider a Single Value.

1. Erm Mate. The Turn Radius is not Importand. The Rudder Shift is. 2. I am Timing my Shots pretty Good. But did you know. Enemy can do that as well lol. And GK actually CANT turn out and back in faster than most Enemy BBs Reload. So unless your Enemy is a Complete Noob he can Hit you easily. Mate no Offense to you. But maybe get a GK yourself and Check out what the hell your Talking about here. You can do this kind of stuff with Republique. But not with a GK. And no. GK is the Absolute Worst BB at this. Because it needs to Angle more and is Slower in doing so than any other BB in the Game. Is that not getting into your Thick Skull or what ???? What part of this do you not Understand ? The GK is way Harder to keep on 60 Degree Angle. it needs more Angle than other BBs to Bounce BB Shells. AND it is on top Slower at actually changing its Angling. than any other T10 BB. GK has the WEAKEST Armor out of all T10 BBs and thats entirely irrelevant to wether you Angle or not. Because on 60+ Degree you Autobounce regardless of Armor. But on any Angle below that. GK Armor is in Fact Weaker than the Armor of ALL OTHER T10 BBs. Is that so hard to Understand ???? Less Armor is Less Armor. 3. Mate no Offense. But the only one Looking like a Fool is you. Because your trying to claim that a T10 BB which you dont even have. Would be the Best Armored BB in T10 when anyone can look at the Armor Model and see it has the Thinnest Armor of all T10 BBs.... And no. In Fact the 32mm Part is not Irrelevant. Its reducing Penetration by the Full Relative Amount. So between 32 and 64mm of Armor depending on Angle. Which makes quite alot of Difference when your Angled.

Well Mate. Then ask yourself. Has Radar or HE Spam been Fixed ? A Harugumo can still Melt a Battleship with its Guns by Spamming HE. And a Division of 2 or 3 Radar Cruisers can still pretty much Perma Spot Enemy DDs through any and all obstacles. These Issues were surely addressed to some Degree. And they are certainly not as bad as CVs. So they get far less Complaints. But they are still Issues. So of course there is still Complaints :)

1. Erm. Not to Offend your Intelligence. But if the Shell Penetrates the 32mm Torpedo Bulge. But then Fails to Penetrate the 405mm Armor Belt of the Montana. Then where exactly do you think that Shell will Explode ??? Do you think that the Shell if it Penetrates the 32mm Torpedo Bulge can just Ignore the 405mm Armor or Something ? You do Realize that each Armor Layer is Calculated right ??? And Yes. Thank You. I actually know the Armor Models. And also the Penetration Mechanics. Unlike you it seems. 2. In Fact I actually Quoted 2 Battleships. The GK which has the Worst Armor. The Montana which has the Second Worst Armor which still has 2km more of Immunity Zone thanks to that Armor. And the Kremlin which has the Best Armor and which thanks to that gets an almost 5km Larger Immunity Zone. And well According to your own Chart there. Actually even the Mighty Yamato which has the Highest Penetration in the Game. Will care. Because the Immunity Zone might move down for Both Ships. Bit its still Bigger for the Montana than for the GK. Needless to say its still much Bigger for the Kremlin. 3. Sorry. But do you actually have any Idea of in between Values ? Are you really so Limited in your View that for you basicly its either Flat Broadside or Angled 60 Degree to Autobounce ? Do you actually Realize that there is Angles in between these 2 Points ? For your Information. Moskwa has 155mm of Armor. So of course it can Bounce Yamato Shells if the Angle they Hit at. Exceed 60 Degrees and thus Automaticly Ricochet. And the Moskwa is a Fairly Maneuverable and Fast Cruiser which can Turn within the Flight Time of a Yamato Firing at it. At this Angle. Even a Königsberg with its 50mm Side Armor can Bounce Yamato Shells. But only very few Ships can maintain a 60 Degree Angling if they want to Fire using all of their Guns. And BBs in General not only tend to not belong to that Group. But unlike Cruisers they also cant increase their Angle back to 60 Degrees upon seeing the Enemy Fire at them. And here is the thing. While at 60 Degree the 155mm of the Moskwa are enough to Bounce Yamato Shells thanks to Autoricochet. The moment the Angle is reduced to 59 Degree or less. The 155mm become at Maximum 310mm of Armor. And as Yamato even on 20km still has 400mm Armor Penetration. The Shell will go Through its Armor. Meaning that the Moskwa has no Immunity Zone unless it uses the Autobounce Mechanic. And See. Moskwa can certainly do this. It is a Cruiser and can fairly fast Turn around. So it can keep itself 60 Degree angled and only Turn its Broadside now and then to get the Extra Shot. But GK actually cant do that. It needs forever to Turn. So you cant just Turn back to 60 Degree when your being Fired upon. Sorry Mate. But you dont have the Ship. And its Pretty Obvious that you have absolutely no Idea what Difference Armor makes. Apparently you dont even know what Relative Armor means or that there is Values in between 0 and 60 Degree.....

This is Wrong and has been Proven Wrong. During 0.8.5 were AA was not that far away from Pretty Good Balancing. This Topic and the CV Topics in General had pretty much Died. And only a few People were Talking about CVs in General. So apparently. People do Stop it if they are more or less Satisfied with the Situation. But right now they are not. In the current Situation with CVs being so Overpowered that a T8 CV is worth more than 3 T10 Battleships. There is of course no way that People will ever go Silent on it. So Complains will get worse and worse the longer CVs remain Overpowered. And until CVs are Properly Balanced the only way for these Complaints to Stop. Is if the Players leave the game entirely.

1. No Offense to you Mate. But the one who doesnt know Crab is you.... The Huge Torpedo Bulge Sectons which are usually Covering alot of the Armor Belt. Do not deal any Damage if they are Penetrated. So its absolutely Great that alot of Ships have this 32mm Torpedo Bulge Overlapping on their Belt Armor. But even if you Penetrate it. You wont do any Damage. Wargaming actually Especially for that. Added a New Icon. Because until a few Months ago. You would get a Penetration Icon. But Deal 0 Damage. Now you actually get an Icon that the Shell Penetrated the Torpedo Bulge but got Stuck in the Armor below it. Hence not dealing any Damage.... 2. Except GK needs 3 Months to actually Turn. And you are far beyond Autobounce Angle if you want to use your Rear Turrets. Which is one of the Big Problems on GK...... 3. And again you Prove that your the one who doesnt know anything.... Mate. In case you didnt know this. Wargaming uses "Relative Armor Thickness" So even 10 Degree Angle will Increase the Armor Thickness. (Which is still very Unrealistic. Because actually you would have to use a much higher Factor because Angling actually increases Armor far more than Relative Armor Thickness. But WoWs only uses Relative Armor Thickness. So we got to deal with that) Now lets assume the Ship is 40 Degree Angled. So far away from Autobounce Angle. We also add 10 Degree from Shell Curve. (Its usually more. But this is enough to make the Point) The Compound Angle the Shills Hit at will be about 49 Degrees. And the Armor will be Buffed by Factor 1.33 Kremlin goes from 430mm to 570mm. But GK only goes from 380mm to 503mm So going by your Chart you actually get a very Noticable Difference. The Montana for Example wont be Able to Penetrate the Kremlin on anything further than 13km. But it can Penetrate the GK nearly 17km away. Thats quite a Difference. And thats ONLY Angled on 40 Degrees. On 50 Degrees even the GK goes over 600mm but the Kremlin comes to a Staggering 680mm. Even Montana with 405mm will go to 640mm So Still 10 Degree away from Autobounce Angle. But the Montana can Penetrate the other Montana only if its closer than 9km. For the Kremlin it needs to actually close in to 7km. But for the GK its enough to be around 11km Are you Really Claiming that this is No Difference ? And this is made even Worse thanks to the Above. Because thanks to the Bad Turret Arcs of the GK. And the Horrendous Turning Speed. You will very often be in such Angles where you cant Autobounce. And thus have to Rely on your Armor Thickness. This is one of the Biggest Reasons why the Kremlin is Considered to Crazy Armored. Because the Kremlin even on way Slighter Angles will already have such Tremendously Relative Armor Values that Shells will get Stuck in the Armor Itself until your extremely Close. And Sorry. But this is a Tremendous Advantage. 4. Anticipation is not an Issue. Its not like the Enemy Ship will Suddenly Appear next to you. And if it does even Gk will not manage either... Secondaries work for everyone if your Close enough. The GK has a bit higher Penetration which Helps against Smaller Ships. But not so much against BBs. Armor against Citadel is of course True. But its a Sole Trait. Because with the Exception of the Montana which has such a Thin Citadel Deck that you Overmatch it with most Shells. Other Ships if they come so close that Turret Speed becomes a Problem. Will often not get Citadelled cause you Autobounce most of your Shells on the Citadel Deck. (Even more so with the Horrible Guns of the GK as you cant Reliably Aim for Waterline.) That one is at least Partially True. At close Range even Yamato if it Overmatched the Upper Part of your Bow cant hit your Citadel Anymore in your Nose and will only get a few Overpens. But thanks to your otherwise fairly Weak Armor you will still eat Full Pen Damage. So Yes. Right back at you. Maybe Learn the Damn Game Mechanics. How about you get a GK yourself to see just how Great its Armor is ?

1. Its not a Question of Flat Broadside. Its a Question of how much Angling is Required before Penetration Power sinks too low to get through. To Bounce the same Shell. A Battleship with over 400mm Belt Armor. Needs to Angle itself less than a Battleship with only 380mm Armor. 2. The Layers are not Overlapping. So the 280mm and 150mm is effectively Weakspots. Pretty Big Weakspots. And well. Actually it can. Because that 90% of the Surface Area is ONLY the Sides. But most of Yamatos Shells if Fired from anything beyond 7-8km will land on the Deck not on the Sides. And thus will Overmatch Alright. 3. The GK is currently the worst of the T10 BBs. Closely Followed by Montana. The Global Stats Tell that Story as well. And Sorry. But how is GK a Close Range Monster ? Thanks to its bad Turret Arcs it has to mostly Present Broadside to Enemies to use its 12 Guns. Its easy to get Full Pens on it and will eat very few Overpens thanks to the Internally Layered Armor. And thanks to the Horrible Accuracy. It is the BB which even on 5km Distance will Managed to land Half of its Shells behind and before the Target. Thanks to that. I never had any Trouble Killing Enemy GKs in Close Quarters even with T8 Battleships.... The Secondaries if using a 18 Point Captain are Annoying. But they are not so Dangerous that they make up for the Abysmal Accuracy of the Main Guns. Because I had more than one Case. Where I was going 4km next to a GK Full Broadside in my Vladivostock. And he did NOTHING because his Shells just Landed Everywhere but not in my Citadel. While I was Doing 30k Damage Hits on him with Normal Pens. 4. Thats Bullcrab actually. Belt Armor is Extremely Importand. Its the Reason why Battleships like Kremlin and Yamato. While being easier to Citadel on Broadside. Are harder to Penetrate in General and have "Trollish" Armor. The Thicker your Belt Armor is the less Angling is Required for Enemy Shells to Bounce. People Pay alot Attention to Overmatch. And completely Ignore high Penetration Power. Admiral Hipper Shells are not that Good thanks to their Nonexistent Overmatch. They are Good because they have high Velocity and high Penetration which Allows them to Punch into BB Citadels very Easily. Overmatch Ignores Angling. So if you cant Overmatch you can Angle to get a Ricochet Chance. But if your Armor aint Thick enough Enemy Shells will still go Trough. And thats even more true in Close Quarters. Because Kremlin if its not Angled enough for Automatic Ricochet can still Pump its Armor up to nearly 850mm by Angling. GK only comes up to slightly above 750mm And at this Point. The Oh so Big Penetration even from BB Guns. Suddenly becomes quite Picky above wether or not its going through or not.

Oh. So I get a Proper Answer after all. 1. A. No. GK has the Strongest "Citadel" Armor of all T10 BBs. And thats only assuming Close Range Shots. Its Actual Outer Armor is actually the Weakest out of all T10 BBs and is the Easiest one to Score Full Penetrations against. B. Fair Enough. But Montana does get better Accuracy in Exchange for that. And since the US 406mm actually have the Same Damage Output as the German 420mm the Montana does actually Deal more Damage in Broadside Battles. HE Damage is higher on Montana but has less Penetration. So lets call it even there. Montana also has a Range Advantage. C. 12 Guns is True. But so do Conqueror and Montana. And while Yamato and Kremlin have Less Guns. They do have Bigger Guns which deal more Damage and which are Vastly more Accurate. The same is True for the Republique which gets less Guns but a way higher Alpha Damage per Shot. A way better Sigma Value and the Republique also gets a Reload that Puts even the German 38cm Guns to Shame. D. The Main Problem is that it cant really use that Speed. It Bleeds Speed like Crazy when it just Turn in the Slightest. And it needs forever to Gain Speed again. Moreover thanks to how Long and Big it is. It is the Wet Dream of any Shimakaze Player. E. GK has same Sigma and Dispersion as all German BBs. Which is the Worst of all T10 BBs by the way. GK has 1.8 Sigma Value. Montana and Kremlin got 1.9, Yamato gets 2.1 and Republique 2.0. Only Conqueror gets 1.8 Sigma as well. But Conqueror gets British Dispersion which is Superior to the German Dispersion at all Ranges. 2. Not Really. Because again. Balance is Decided upon 2 Players with the same Skill. So they can do the exact same Thing. And as I just Pointed out. While the GK has the Best Armored Citadel. Its Actual Armor Belt is actually the Weakest out of all T10 BBs. And thanks to its Massive Size it is a Very Easy Target to Hit. Other Battleships can take Advantage of the GKs Reload the Same way the GK can with them. And unlike the GK. Most of them are more Maneuverable. And thus can do it Faster. And thanks to their Higher Accuracy Pretty much any other T10 BB will actually Outdamage the GK in such a Fight. by the Way. As a Small Test of just the Ship without Considering the Player. I am currently Running some Bot Matches. Of 5 vs 5 Bots with the Ship. Same Levels of course. Will tell the Results Later. A. Against a Republique not getting Outmaneuvered is a Pretty Tall Order. Because the Republique is much more Maneuverable. And while you say the Republique is Sqishy. Its Side Armor is actually better than that of the GK. Its easier to Citadel of course. But not easier to Penetrate. Even less when Angled. And its Guns are Fairly Accurate and Fairly Fast Firing. So Honestly said. I am not sure the GK would Win a Broadside Fight unless RNGesus Smiles and gives it some Lucky Citadel Hits. B. You Forget something on the Montana. It might be a Huge Citadel. But only if you got Accurate Guns. I have had my Fair Share of Fights with Montana Players. And even if the Present me the Flat Broadside 8km away. I can tell you Pretty Straight that the General outcome is alot of Overpens and no Citadels thanks to Shells going anywhere but the Target. C. Oh and how do you get Close ? Because Yamato Accuracy is Crazy. Its so Tremendously DIfferent that the First 2 Matches I had with it. I completely Missed cause I was used to actually Aiming behind Target so GK hits anything at all. it can Extremely Reliably Punch Holes into you. And from the Front your Citadel as GK is Pretty Vulnearble. Also. Actually Yamato can Overpen Sections of the Bow on GK. The GK has some 60mm Stripes. But alot of it especially on Top is stull 32mm. And Yamato Bow on Bow will likely hit the Upper Part on anything but 5-6km Distance. But if you got that Close the Yamato has already Proven vastly Inferior as a Player. Moreover. I have catched several Yamatos like this. And dont get me Wrong. But hitting the Infamous Cheek with a GK is RNGesus in its Purest Form. Sometimes your Lucky and get several Citadels. But with GK most of the Time. You will hit anything. But certainly not that Tiny Spot your Aiming For. D. I have little Experience Fighting Conquerors. So I will refrain from this One. The Few cases I had. The Conqueror didnt need to Burn me. It generally did 10k and more Salvos with HE on me. While staying Angled and barely taking any Damage in Return. E. Kremlin has Huge Citadel with Thick Armor Belt. And Pretty Huge Guns. And worse. Kremlin has an Incredible Advantage in Accuracy especially when Brawling. Which gives it a pretty Big Advantage actually. F. Lets Ignore that one. Its an Steel Ship. And most of the Time will Beat anything. Not due to Ship but due to Players having it being Monsters in the First Place. So its hard to Judge on this one. 3. I agree with this. In a Clanwar or even in Ranked. If you have Competent Teammates the GK can be a Great Tank in the Frontline. But you Generally cant Guarantee this outside of a Clanwar. And a Ship Reliant on Teamwork is ALWAYS at a Disadvantage in a Game with Random Teams. 4. So No. Not Really. GK is and Stays the Weakest of the Tier 10 BBs. And Server Stats Agreeing with you is a Pretty Big Claim. Because it depends alot on which Server Stats your looking at. Because if I check Maplesyrup. The GK has the Lowest Average Damage, the Lowest K/D, the Lowest Average Kills, the Lowest Experience Gain. And while its not last Place in Winrate. All T10 BBs are pretty much Equal in Winrate with the Exception of the Kremlin which is currently just Beating everything to a Pulp.

Well. You could give some Examples I guess. Because dont get me Wrong. But a GK could basicly considered to have been Playing Wrong if its gets within Range of a Smolensk. But its also Played Wrong if you dont Push with it. Which means you can effectively Blame anything on "Playing Wrong" The Fact however is that the GK whose Thicker Deck Armor is always mentioned when People want to claim that its not Underpowered. Has a Gigantic Superstructure that can be Penetrated by HE Shells even from DDs which dont have IFHE very easily at all Ranges and which Covers about 2/3 of the 50mm Armored Armored Deck. Thus making that Armored Deck pretty much useless against HE Shells. And since the GK is also a Gigantic Target which needs Hours to Turn around. You can easily Hit it with HE Spam even on Longer Ranges. (And also with Torpedoes for that Matter. Because with the Horrendous Turning Times your Hydro often just means that you can see your Death coming a bit Earlier due to the GK not really going to make any notable Evasive Maneuvers even if it Spots Enemy Torpedoes 4km away. ) The Biggest issue however is and Stays the Horrendous Accuracy. Even if you Fire at an Flat Broadside 5km away. The Result you tend to get is a Bunch of Overpens into the Superstructure and alot of Water Splashes that land before the Ship because your Shells will Fly pretty much everywhere but not where your Aiming. And a Smolensk can Pretty Safely Stand Fully Broadside to you at 5-10km Distance. Because 99 out of 100 Shells you Fire will either Overpen some Irrelevant Part of the Ship. Or will Simply Miss. Which really does not allow for that much Good or Bad Play there really.

I always love this. 1. I want a German BB with Bigger Guns. I already have Yamato. Quite like it actually. Albeit I really need to get used to the way of Playing this Ship. But thats not what I need nor what I want. I want the German BBs to catch up with the Powercreep. And adding new German Ships is one way to do it. If we could Reverse the Powercreep I would not Mind. But we cant. And WG never will. So the only Choice is to try and get part of it so its at least Fair again. 2. If you dont want any Fantasy Stuff then your in the Wrong Game. Because we already got Fantasy in almost every Playable Nation anyways. 3. I always love this Self Relativating comment "GK is very Strong IF played right" This is a Typical Nonsaying Comment. Because any Ship is Strong if the Player is more Skilled than the Enemy. But this is compeltely Irrelevant to Ship Balance. Because for Ship Balance you assume both Players to be Equally Skilled. And if both Players are Equally Skilled the GK will lose against every Single other T10 BB. So the GK is not very Strong. It is in Fact pretty weak for a T10 BB.

Allow me to Fuzzy you up even more then. Cause I just bothered Checking for the Replay to actually know which Game it was. (Yes I was Serious. I really did not notice you guys) I am actually Impressed you Managed to Win this. The other Players on my Flank got Farmed Pretty Hard. So I forced a Push hoping that the Guys in the Center could score on it. But since nobody really Capitalized on it. I did not expect this Match to end in a Win. Nice you could turn it around.

Not Really. If you had Read it Properly. My Comment on Agreeing that German BBs need a Buff. Was aimed at his Comment where he said that it would be Enough to Reduce the Number of Skill Points you need to run a Secondary Build. Because then German Ships could use the Secondary Build together with an Tank Build. Which would allow them to Capitalize on their one Redeeming Feature without abandoning the Advantages that other Nations can get in addition to their Inherent ones. It might be a very Light Buff. But it still is a Buff. And it still means we Agree that German BBs need to be Buffed. Even if we vastly Disagree on how Severe that Buff needs to be. I looked that one up. But I really cant find any Indicators that this would be Accurate. All Data you find always assumes 48cm and 50.8cm Guns. An Calculation Error could be possible for the 50.8cm Guns. Because if you use the German "Inch" (called Zoll in German) which is 2.53 Centimeters. Instead of the British Inch which is 2.54 Centimeters. Then you would come up to 50.6cm Guns instead. But even that is really unlikely. Because the German 40.6cm Guns used the Standard Inch that everyone used at this Point. And if you go by old German Units instead you could Literally make this out to have any Length you want to begin. Because in the Old German Inch was based on 1/10, 1/11, 1/12 of a Feet. And each Goddamn City had a Different Idea of how long 1 Feet was..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsolete_German_units_of_measurement#Zoll_(inch) The Idea behind that Statement he Posts seems to be that if you go Solely by Inch. You come up with 45.7cm Gun for 18 Inch. 48.3cm Gun for 19 Inch. And 50.8cm Gun for 20 Inch. So you would either end up with an 48.3cm Gun or an 45.7cm Gun. Both of which are Rounded Values however and dont really add up Accurately. But the German 28.3cm Guns as well as the 38cm Guns did not use Inch either. They wont come up Accurately on Inch. Actually most German Guns Ignore the Inch Value entirely and go Purely by an Centimeter Value which not always adds up with an Inch Value properly. So I would in General assume that the Correlation for Inch in some Guns is actually just a Coincident or Resulting from the Design being Started before the War and thus still Including Measurements from the Earlier German Empire. The 42cm Guns are an Good Example of this as well. As they dont come out on any Inch Value either. So assuming that the 48cm Guns need to Follow an Inch Value is not really making much Sense. I would therefore simply go with the Listed Centimeter Values of 48cm and 50.8cm and Ignore any and at all Correlation with the Inch Value. As most other German Naval Guns dont add up to these either.

Just saying. But I dont really mind if its Pure Fantasy. This Game is about as Realistic as Donald Trump is Honest. Russia got an entire Line of mostly Pure Fantasy Ships by now. And even Nations which got more than enough Real Ships actually by now have more and more Ships included that were only Existing in Paper. So I dont care about this at all ;) 1. I am not Disregarding what your Saying at all. I am merely Pointing out Flaws and Mistakes with it which Negates their use as an Argument. In this Case you have Provided Hitratio Data from yourself. And I pointed out 2 Problems with this. A. That the General Hitratio is mostly Irrelevant to this. Because Japanese BBs with very High Accuracy will often Fight on much Higher Ranges and thus get similar Hitratios as the German BBs despite the German BBs being vastly less Accurate. And B. That your Personal Hitratio is not really a Valid Measuring Point because its based on you alone and holds no Value for Others. And Yes of course I will use your own Arguments against you lol. Thats how an Argument works you know. You of course want to Emphasize the Part of an Argument which Supports your Claims. But if the Same Argument also holds Points which Support my Claims. Then of course I will Emphasize these Points Instead. Nothing Personal Mate. Its just how Argumentation works. You bring forward Arguments and Try to Counter the Arguments of your Opposition. 2. I dont assume Enemies to Play Perfectly. I assume them to Play Decent. It makes no Sense to assume most of your Enemies are Complete Noobs. Because Complete Noobs you dont need an Equal Ship to Compete. The ability to Defeat Noob Enemies with a Ship does not tell you anything about that Ship being Balanced or not. Because Noobs even if they have Vastly more Powerful Ships. Will not be able to actually use the Advantages their Ship has in the First Place and thus dont really count into Balancing. Thats why they are called Noobs you know. Balancing doesnt need to be Done on Unicums. But it does need to be Done on Competent Players. Because if you try to Balance based on Noob Players you will end up with things like Hosho.... 3. Maybe Read what I said again. This Angling in and out between Salvos is Exactly the Reason why the Slower Reloading BB with higher Alpha has an Advantage. Because you ONLY need to Angle out when YOU want to Shoot. You dont need to Angle when the Enemy wants to Shoot. So what if he Fires a Second Salvo before you have Reloaded ? You dont have Reloaded so you dont need to Show him anything but your Bow where he Cant Penetrate. The Pace in this case is always Dominated by the Ship with Slower Reload. Because even if the Bismarck has 26 Seconds Reload Time while the Vladivostock has 30 Seconds. The Bismarck will have to wait with actually Shooting until the Vladi has Reloaded as well and thus Turns in. Because otherwise the Bismarck will Turn in and only Hit the Bow Armor of the Vladi with no real Effect. While the Vladi then can Fire into the Bismarcks Side Armor as the Bismarck tries to Turn back. The Typical Scenario will be this. Bismarck and Vladi Advance on each other. Both Show an Angle that cant be Penetrated. And both will use only their Forward Guns on each other. In this Scenario the Vladi of course has a huge Advantage. Because it has 6 Guns against the Bismarck having 4 Guns. So the Bismarck will try to Turn in its Rear Guns after the Vladi has Fired. And the Vladi will of course also try to Turn in its Rear Guns after the Bismarck has Fired. But if you think about it. This means the Vladi has a Severe Advantage at all Times. The Bismarcks Firepower without Turning in is Halfed. It is Forced to Turn in if it wants to have a Chance. Meaning the Vladi has the Initiative from the Start. The Vladi however has 2/3 of its Firepower in the Front. For him its actually a Question if he wants to Risk Turning in at all. As it might be better for him to Just Stay Bow In entirely. Thanks to the Bismarcks Laughable HE Damage the Vladi will have an Severe Advantage in a Bow Battle as well. You Provided a Scenario where the High Reload was an Advantage. So of course I will counter it with Scenarios where the High Alpha Damage is an Advantage and where the High Reload is even an Disadvantage. And High Alpha is never a Disadvantage. So its fairly Easy to Win this Argument for me :) 4. Honestly Said I have Won several Drivebys against Bismarck in my Vladi. And I am not even a very Good Player with Vladi. The Reason for that is not really hard to guess either. When I see a Bismarck coming for me I will Hold my Salvo to get a Broadside into him. My Guns have a Higher Penetration than he has and he also has Lower Belt Armor. So I can actually Shoot First into his Broadside. And even with Normal Pens I will do 20-30k Damage pretty easily because on Short Range I have quite the Impressive Accuracy with my Guns. I have 370mm on my Belt and his Guns have way lower Penetration. So he has to hold his Fire until he is really far on my Side if he wants to go for an Citadel Shot. And his Guns have Horrible Accuracy. So most of the Time even if he is 3km to my Side. Alot of His Shots will not Hit the Small Strap of Citadel. And will instead Fall into the Water or Fly into my Upper Decks. In General its pretty rare that the Bismarck will land more than maybe 1 or 2 Citadels. So he comes out on the same 20-30k Damage as the Vladi in that Exchange. And as he had to wait longer to actually Fire. The Vladi will likely have its Second Salvo Reloaded before the Bismarck. Thanks to that. After the First Exchange of 20-30k Damage it will usually be my Vladi which then Seals the Deal with a Second High Damage Salvo. If it ever came this far that is. At the Point where a Bismarck has Rushed me so far that it can do a Driveby Attack. It is rarely above 30k HP anymore. So very often this Attempt will already End his Life before he can even Fire. And pls note. I am assuming here that the Bismarck did everything Correctly and that there also was no Team involved Peppering the Bismarck in its Yolo Charge. Both of which is a rare occurence as well and will usually only happen in the Endgame. Because while the Vladi thanks to higher Penetration and not as Thick Armor Belt of the Bismarck. Has a Fairly easy Time to get a High Damage Salvo out here. While the Bismarck actually has to do a pretty Good job of Timing a Strike and also has a very high RNG Factor which often ends up returning a 5k Damage Salvo instead as most Shells land in the Water and Superstructure instead. Which is exactly why German BBs are so bad. Even at Short Ranges their Accuracy is so Horrible. That actually Hitting an Exposed Citadels like this is a Pure Game of Luck. I wont Reply to the rest of your Post as its not containing any Arguments and mostly Consists of an pretty sad attempt to Mock me. If you cant deal with it when People dont say Yes and Amen to whatever you say. You will really have trouble finding People to talk to in Forums Mate.

I am proud of you :)

Didnt notice You.

1. Thing is. You might have such a Difference between Wooster and Kronstadt. But you dont have it between German BBs and other Nations BBs. And you also dont mention that the Higher Firing Angle comes with other Advantages. For example that you can Fire From Covered Positions where the Enemy cannot Hit you back without flanking you First. 2. Thats even less Relevant then. To begin with the Hit Ratio Numbers are not very Relevant. Because the more Accurate Japanese BBs will also way more often Fight on Range and thus get lower or Equal Hitcounts despite actually being far more Accurate. But your own Hitratio is even less Relevant. Because its far too Dependent on a Single Persons Playstyle. 3. Which is Pretty much what I said. Bismarck is among the Worst. And your Argument ONLY works on the T8 French BB which is the Richi. But Richi in exchange comes with 2x4 Forward Mounted Guns. Therefore it can easily Bowtank while Full Firepower. While the Bismarck cannot do this at all. And given that Bismarck can only use Half of its Guns in your Scenario as well. It will lose out here as well. Especially because when you consider only using Forward turrets. Most BBs will actually become even more Powerful compared to Bismarck. And No. Sorry but this Myth about being Punished less in a Bismarck is complete Horse**** because while you might not get Citadelled. You also dont get Overpenned. On other BBs you might eat a Citadel. But you also often only Eat like 6k Damage cause 6 Enemy Shells just Flew right through your Armor. While Bismarck instead ends up with almost Guaranteed Full Pens constantly eating 10-20k Damage Salvos. I just love Shooting at Broadsiding Bismarck due to that. Because its Guaranteed High Damage with much less RNG than when Firing at an Amagi for example. The minor Difference is. That assuming you can Retreat from a Close Range Battle you can in Theory at least Repair 33% instead of 10% of the Damage done to you. As for Monarch. It has Insane HE in Exchange and can Repair a Crabton of Damage on its own Ship. 4. No Offense. But I can easily Turn this Around. Because Instead sometimes I am also the one in my Vladi Disappearing behind that Island thus both of us only being able to Exchange a Single Salvo. And you can Bet I have a far Higher Damage Potential than the Bismarck when doing this. This becomes even more True when Facing an Enemy BB that actually knows how to Angle. Cause I dont give a Rats [edited]about the Shots landing in my Bow. I only care about the Shots he Lands while I am turning my Side to him. Thanks to that. The BB which can Deal more Damage per Salvo is often at an Severe Advantage. Because if the only Salvos really Counting. Are those Fired when the other Party is currently showing you their Side to get their Remaining Guns on the Enemy. Than usually it is the BB with Higher Alpha and Slower Reload which Wins out. Because he can Dominate the Pace. This is Especially True between Bismarck and Vladivostock for Example. Because as Vladi. i dont need to bring my Rear Turret. I can leisurely Outdamage the Bismarck in a Battle Bow to Bow. I dont need my Rear Gun at all. But he does. He has no Chance of Winning a Bow on Bow Duel with me. He has to come around and give me his Broadside. Same against Monarch with its HE by the way. Monarch doesnt need to give its Broadside to Bismarck. But otherwway around Bismarck needs to do that. In T8 only the Amagi would actually Face an Uphill Battle in Close Quarters. Because it has to Expose its Side to the Bismarck as well. All other T8 BBs can actually run far more DPM in pretty much all Situations without Compromising their own Health.

Yep. Its likely a Lip Service Only Nerf. Time to Hit for Torpedoes will be exactly the same as before. And Thanks to the Number of Aircraft the Return Speed is pretty Nonconsequential because the Timer to Invulnearbility is a Set number of Seconds and does not change from the Speed. So in Total this basicly means no Change whatsoever. WG thinks pretty lowly of the majority of its Playerbase and Generally considers our Average Intelligence to be around the level of a German Wiener Dog. So they likely wanted to add some kind of CV Nerf into Patchnotes and see how many Smart People they can convince that Hosho is no longer Overpowered after the Update.

1. Mate no Offense. But Kronstadt has a 2.05 Sigma Value. And only the Base Dispersion is that of Battleships. The reason it has higher Hit Ratio is not due to Railgungs. Its due to the Sigma Value of 2.05 which is much more than most Battleships have. 2. Nagato also is a T7 BB with 40cm Guns which really Hurt like Hell. But to begin with. Would you mind Sourcing these Numbers? Cause they dont Comply with Maplesyrup Numbers. And it would be nice if we could talk with the same Source in Mind. As otherwise the Data wont add up. 3. They have Worse Reload because they have Higher Damage and Bigger Guns. Not because of Higher Accuracy. Did you Forget that other Nations not only have way more Guns but also Bigger Guns dealing more Damage and having Higher Penetration ? :) What use does it have to have 12% higher Reload when you have 28% lower Damage per Salvo lol The only BB against which that Argument would work is the French T8 BB as its got 38cm Guns as well. But in exchange it comes with 2x4 Forward Mounted Turrets which not only Results in more Hits but also allows for Bow Tanking with Full Firepower.... 4. No Offense Mate. But if you want to Include DPS into this Argument be my Guest. Because German BBs have along the lowest DPS of BBs in the Game.... Sigh Reality is Completely Irrelevant to this. But oh well. 1. Thats Factually Wrong. 16 of the Guns were Used for Bismarck and Tirpitz 6 more were Build for Gneisenau. However they were never Mounted as Gneisenau went out of Service. Therefor 3 of them were Converted into Railroad Artillery Pieces. And 3 more were Converted into Coastal Defense Guns. 4 more were Build as Coastal Defense Guns in the First Place. Unlike the ones Converted from the Gneisenau these had a slightly Different Turret and Armor Setup by the way. Needless to say. Germany actually had 800mm Railway Guns as well as some other Large Calibres. The Scharnhorst 28cm and Bismarck 38cm Guns came from these as well by the way. 2. We could Talk about Wartime Propaganda on all Sides. But its even less Relevant to the Topic than your other Statement. Moeover. We could actually say. 320mm Outer Belt, 120mm Inner Belt, 45mm citadel. Comes together to 485mm of Armor. In Television and Propaganda it is unlikely that they would go into such Details. Hence they said 500mm Armor. In this case however. What is Wrong is just your Translation. I will Translate the Text for you as its Spoken in German. And the Older Dialect of German used in WW2.... "This Giant of Steel is 241 Meters Long and 36 Meters Wide. And has a Displacement of 35.000 Tons. Its armament includes 8x38cm Guns 12x15cm Guns and the Necessary Anti Aircraft Guns." The Armor is not Actually Mentioned. Neither by German Commentator. Nor by Hitler himself during his Speech. The Guns are Correctly Designated as 38cm Guns. Which is to be Expected. Because Germany used Centimeters. NOT Inches as Measurement for their Guns. And would never have used an Inch Value in their Propaganda. So both of these Claims are Rubbish. Just Asking. But have you not Noticed that I am Ignoring you ? Are you that Eager to Follow me Everywhere and comment on me ? You got nothing else to do ??? I tought I was a Waste of Time and you would no longer waste your Time with me ????? You so Salty on me proving you wrong that your now going to follow me everywhere and try to Provoke me ??? Seriously. Do us both a Favor and leave it be. I dont need a Fanclub following me around. And you should really find something better to do with your Time. Fair Opinion. But if you Stopped anyways then I hope WG listens to me Instead :P After all. I like new Ships and Variants ^^ If we all Agreed it would be a Boring World anyways. Its nice that we can actually Agree that German BBs need a Buff at least.....

Just sayin. But 48cm Double Turrets were the Original design for H42. H44 was even considered for 50cm Guns. So the remaining Ship could still be the same H42 Design as the Kurfürst. Just instead of Triple 42cm it would have 48cm Double Turrets. Actually. I found no source for Triple 42cm to begin with. No idea where WG found that idea :P

Just Saying. But this Picture of yours actually Proves that the German Accuracy on BBs is Horrible. PEF and Scharnhorst are over 40% because they are Premium BBs and do not Follow the Base Accuracy of German BBs. WG has given them a Sigma Value of 2.0 instead of the 1.8 that German BBs normally get. Thats why their Shells will actually Hit much more often where your Aiming. The Reason the Gneisenau is Slightly above the other BBs is due to most People using the Forward Guns and Ignoring the Rear Turret. So while the Sigma Value is 1.8 and thus pretty Bad. Since most People only use the 2 Turrets which are sitting together. Their Shells will still Hit a little bit more Accurately. Then come the Bulk of the German BBs in the Bracket around 30% All of them have 1.8 Sigma Value. And there is the thing. This Bulk of German BBs with its Bad Accuracy will Hit 2-3 of their 8 Shells because they only have these 8 Shells Fired per Salvo. (Which is why People feel GK as being more Accurate as it at least has 12 Shells Fired and thus actually get 3-4 Hits per Salvo instead. Now Compare that to other Nations. Because you can actually make out a pretty Obvious Pattern. Because other Nations Battleships. If they only have 8 Guns like German BBs usually get a Better Sigma Value and thus get a higher Accuracy. And will usually get 3-4 Hits out of their 8 Shells Fired. Battleships with 9 or 10 Guns get the same 1.8 Sigma Value as German BBs thus getting roughly the same Accuracy. But since they got more Guns they will also get 3-4 Hits out of these instead of 2-3 like German BBs. Only Battleships with 12 or more Guns get a Worse Sigma Value as German BBs. Thanks to that they actually get a lower Accuracy on Paper. But thanks to their larger Number of Guns they will similar to GK get a Higher Count of Shells actually Hitting the Target. Again coming up to 3-4 Shells Hitting instead of the German 2-3 Shells. The Exception to that is on Tier 10. The Conqueror gets 1.8 Sigma with the 12 Gun Setup. (It used to get 2.0 for the 8 Gun Setup since its not German :P ) The Montana gets 1.9 Sigma with the Gun Setup and also has Access to the US Module for Accuracy Increase. The Yamato as it only has 9 Guns gets a Staggering Sigma of 2.1 to make up for the fewer Guns. Just like the Republique which also gets a 2.0 Sigma to make for having only 8 Guns. The Worst after the GK being the Kremlin which only has 9 Guns and gets a Sigma of 1.9 Thanks to that. In Tier 10 the German BB will usually get 3-4 Hits on Target. While the others will get 3-5 Hits on Target. (the 3 Remaining there mostly due to the Ships which have fewer Large Calibre Guns) And thats where we are back to Topic. With Larger Calibre. The Accuracy is Somewhat Negated. Because with the Larger Calibre Each Shell Hitting actually Deals more Damage. You dont need as many Hits to Deal the same Damage. And thanks to Overmatch alot more of these Hits also Cause Damage. Thats why a German BB with Larger Calibre Guns would Actually be much more Competetive than the Grosser Kurfürst currently is. If the Grosser Kurfürst for example got an Option for 48cm Twin Turrets instead of the 42cm Triple Turrets. It could (unlike the Conqueror) remain on 1.8 Sigma but would still be Competetive in Tier 10 because even if only 2-3 Shells per Salvo Hit. These would still actually have good odds cause Damage. Alternatively since US and UK both got their High Caliber Guns in T10 as a Premium Variant Now. Germany could get a T10 Premium with 48cm Guns :) I might actually Prefer the Premium. Because I have a Feeling if its Premium then WG might give it an 1.9 or even 2.0 Sigma Value and thus make it Pretty Powerful :P