Sunleader

Ok Counting 1 more Happy Customer Enjoying Subs in Randoms. Sure. Because Submerged Sub with 4km Vision Range and 13 Knots Speed is so Dangerous. Its not about History. Its about being Viable. Right now Subs are working on a *if your catched your dead* principle. So avoiding Enemies that will easily massacre you and reaching Enemies that cant Attack you back. If your caught your dead. But this only works if there is Targets that cant hit you back. If everyone can Hit Subs this wont be Viable. So they would need to Buff Subs from an Sneak Attack Unit to a Combat Unit. Meaning either Glass Cannons with 50k Torps effectively making it a Challenge of who oneshots the other first. Or Subs that go 35 knots Submerged so like DDs they can Run away from Ships they cant Beat in a Direct Fight. Neither of which is appealing sorry. VW is just as Bad cause your not a Government and cannot Obligate WG to not Implement certain things they would need to hide when not obeying you. But once again Mate. I am just stating the Consequences of your Behavior. I have no Influence on this nor do I urge you to do anything. I am just telling you that if WG cant get proper Data from a Seperate Mode. They wont have any other Choice than to get the Data from the Primary Mode. Nothing more. Nothing less ;)

I know. But that doesnt mean there wont be new Considerations. WG did implement a Mechanic for Guided Torps for example where you need to maintain Sonar Pings. Which might very well lead to them thinking about adding Radar Pings for Missiles.

I am asking because lately New T10 Ships already Dip into the Timeline where this becomes a thing. Also. Weapons and Spotting and even Radar in WG are entirely Fantasy already. So its Highly Unlikely that if we get Modern Ships they will have more than the current 20-25km ranges of BBs I dont care. Just wanna know if they are thinking about it. Thats why I am asking if there is plans on it.

So you wanna Blame Wargaming for not getting something right where you do everything you can to prevent them from doing it right ? Sounds about as Logical as Greenpeace Protests again WindEnergy due to it killing Birds and then Protesting that Government isn Building up Green Energy fast enough to phase Fossil Energy out. 1. Thing is. If they make it Historically Accurate it will be completely useless. Cause its 1 Plane dropping maybe 1 or 2 Small Charges that wont do anything unless its a Direct Hit. and there is the thing. It will be either useless like Fighters or OP cause BB just Kills Enemy Sub by Pressing a Button thus being Invincible to Subs. I just really see no way for this to work without it being either absurdly OP or utterly useless. Just think about it. Lets say it does 40% Damage. So basicly. I can Attack BB 2 Times and 3rd Time I am Dead due to Automatic System. But. If it does 5% Damage or only Deals Damage on Direct hit which it nearly never gets. Well. No use at all to use it then. It will just be Ignored. 2. Them being Displayed doesnt mean they willbe Implemented. Hobestly said. Its unlikely we get Missiles. Its Possible of Course. But it would be another Meta Change. Snd Likely Result in T11 and above Ships. 3. Same could happen against a DD as he exceeds your spotting range and is faster than you. As well as against a CV of course as he is safely outside your Range. Likewise you yourself can do it against BBs as your Concealment is better. So thats no Isdue to me. Dying because Teammates dont do their Job has been in the Game from Day 1

I would not Support Floatplane Waterbombs. For the Simple reason that I dont see a way to Implement this in any meaningful way. After all. If the Floatplane just Kills the Sub Automaticly. Thats not really going to Fly with most People. And the Floatplane would also effectively need to Oneshot the Sub. Because if it drops 1-2 of these 200kg (very small) depth charges. At an Enemy he isnt even Seeing. Chances are you do little to no Damage. And then the Plane is on Cooldown for 2 Minutes so.... But if you buff them to basicly just keep Bombing or to just make these Air Drop Depth Charges Super Powerful. Then well you are back to "BBs can just kill Subs by Pressing Floatplane Button" thingy.... Acoustic Jamming wasnt really a thing either I think. At least not Succesfully. Now other Options is ineed a thing. I think some British Battleships for example did have Hedgehog Launchers. So these Projectors which Launched a Bunch of Contact Grenades over a small Area up to 200-300m away. These might make Sense. The BB still cant see a Sub Underwater. And these Hedgehogs unlike Waterbombs had no Explosive Radius. If they did not score a Direct Hit there would be no Damage. In the Game they would basicly be Dispersed over an Small area around the Ship. And this way have a Chance to cause some Damage to the Submarine. Damage of course only if your actually hit by a Projectile and nowhere near as Strong Damage as Depth Charges. But it would provide some Limited Defence to other Ships. Which would not be completely out of touch with Reality. However. In General I still think. This should only be done with the Depth handling. Yamato HE Shells were freaking 1000kg Bombs. These things could easily Reach up to 20m and more into the Water. So if we just Implemented Shells to have proper Blast Radius into the Water and Remove this 6m Magical Barrier. This would already make BBs extremely Dangerous for Submarine. Because they basicly have to Stay below 25m Depth all the Time to be Safe. Which makes it much harder for them Operate near a BB. And this would also mean that while a BB alone cant do much about the Sub due to not seeing it. The moment a DD or CL comes around and Spots the Sub. Even if the Sub is not in Range of Waterbombs. If the Sub is above the 25m Blast Radius. The BB might just Blast it pretty Badly with HE Shells. And 25m deep also means you have to stay at a bit of range to actually get the Torpedoes up to the Surface to attack. Limiting how close a Sub can be to Attack while actually being Immune to Counterattacks. Because if its 1km away. Torps wont get up from 25m Depth. But if the Sub goes Up to Torp the BB can use HE on it. So it has to give Distance. And as BBs are Faster than Subs. Especially if Subs are Underwater. This means there is only a very limited Corridor for Subs to actually Attack other Ships while being Immune to Counterattacks. Not Trying to Compell you. Just telling you how things are. If WG cant get Data to Balance Subs from Testing in Seperate Mode before moving them to the Primary Mode. They will do as with CV Rework and just move and Balance it in the Primary Mode right away. Moreover. Months ago. I voiced the Hope that if the Seperate Mode thing goes well. Maybe WG gets the Idea to Implement different Gamemodes entirely so People can avoid Aspects they dont like. But guess what. This Test Proves to me. That this is Impossible. There must be only 1 Gamemode and this gamemode must have Everything together. Because otherwise one Group will be Singled out and become Unplayable. :) Hence. Welcome Subs in Randoms. Your just Hastening the Process and likely your also making the Start worse. Because the more Trouble WG has Balancing Subs before putting them into Randoms. The less Balanced they will be when being Added to Randoms. :)

I would not agree on that tough. No Offense. But BBs should not be Dropping Waterbombs. Maybe a few of em which Historically had Anti Sub Weapons should get Anti Sub Weapons. But as Standard. CAs and BBs should not have any Anti Submarine Weapons. Otherwise Submarines will effectively end up useless. As they basicly can only sit somewhere on high range and Spam torpedoes the whole match which isnt really helping the Team. What I do hope to see is some Changes. For example. There should be no Magic 6m Barrier. Waterbombs should always do Damage to Subs. They did do Damage to any Ship above the Detonation in Reality. They work by creating a Shockbubble which tends to move Upwards and thus Breaks apart Ships Hulls if they are too close above it. So they should Work regardless of the Sub being Surface or not. And Shells should not all stop working below 6m either. How Deep a Shell goes should depend on its Blast Radius. So BB Shells should Reach deeper than 6m. While DD Shells should actually not even reach 6m Deep. This Stops Subs cheesing Waterbombs by Sirfacing for a Second and it also stops Submarines from being able to Cheese this. As to avoid being Blapped by BB HE they have to be several meters below Periscope Depth and thus cant just pop up and down constantly. Finally add a 1km Arming Distance to Torps so Subs cant do these Faceplanting actions of staying below surface till last second and then drop torps from point blank range into a DD when it tries to drop Waterbombs. While I myself find it easy to Avoid these Point Blank Torpedoes. Because you just have to Strafe slightly Diagonal as a DD. (Sub is about as Agile as a BB Turret. So it just doesnt manage to turn after you at close ranges so as long as you keep an eye on the Minimap and strafe him into a Direction he hasnt Aimed his Bow in before you approached. You can very easily avoid being Face Planted with Torps) But most People wont get that Idea. So we can just as well give Sub Torps an Arming Distance. It wont hinder regular Gameplay. But will prevent this Issue without Requiring something as unlikely as Players L2P....

Dont worry. As I said. He aint leaving anyways. Thats the thing. All the Time People threaten this. "If WG does this I will leave" And then WG does it. And guess what. People who said they leave are still there..... Here Just Watch First 20 Seconds. And thats the thing. Make these Threats without Following through on them. And they stop being Threats. They simply become something that makes people look like Clowns and allows WG to then Dismiss any and all threats as just being childich pouting which nobody is gonna follow through with anyways.

Didnt you already say you would Leave for CVs ? Sorry Mate. But I have the feeling that you leaving isnt undeniable. But rather unlikely. I guess Subs will be coming into Randoms around Christmas. And I also guess. You will still be here. And well Mate. If Sub Mode was Played by alot of People. WG might see Subs are Ok. But they will also See. "Hey. A Different Gamemode is actually something that People will Play in Acceptable Levels and having different Gamemodes with certain Classes might actually work" But now they See. Nope. Different Gamemode will never Work. If we want any real Data we have to Put Subs into Randoms :)

At the Actual Topic by the way. The Reason why this Sub Mode didnt work is actually not related to Community liking Subs or not. The Reason is plain and Simple Wargamings Urge to turn everything into Gambling. If you make a Gacha that effectively Gives out Subs Randomly once per Day. But otherwise is not related to anyone actually Playing the Mode. Then you will of course create a Problem. Because guess what. Newsflash. The People Interested in Submarines. WANT TO PLAY SUBMARINES. People not Interested in Submarines. DONT WANT TO PLAY IN SUBMARINE MODE. So if the only way to get Submarines is to Wait for the Gacha and has no Relation to Play Submarine Mode. Then why would I bother Playing Submarine Mode before I get a Sub ? And if once I got the Sub from the Gacha I have no Incentive to Play something other than the Sub I am interested in. Then why would I bother Playing anything but Submarine ??? They should have made it so that you 4 Missions per Day. 1 for each Ship Class. Each Mission Consists of getting 5 Wins in that Ship Class in Submarine Battles. And each Mission gives you 1 Submarine Token (and maybe 100 Coal) that can be Exchanged for 1 Hour Rental Submarine. That way everyone who wants to Play Submarine. Would have to Play other Ships as well. And actually Play with the Intention of Winning. And the Sub only lasts for 1 Hour. Then you would have proper Numbers in Queue because you would not have 100 Players wanting to Play Submarine for 10 Players that will Play something else in the Mode.

Well Mate. You say you want Subs to be a Seperate Gamemode. But your Boycotting that Different Gamemode. You guys should Accept this. Subs will Come into the Game Period. Thats non Negotiable no matter how much you dislike it. But as to how they Enter the Game thats something the Community can Influence. And thats the thing. There is no Lack of Players in Sub Mode. There is Tons of Players wanting to Play Subs. The Lack is Players that want to Play non Subs in Submarine Mode. And this to WG is Perfect Evidence that if they Split Gamemodes. Everyone will only the Play the Ship most Suited to that Gamemode and the other Ships wont be Used. So effectively. What your doing right now. Is to Prove to Wargaming that a Seperate Gamemode for Submarines can Never Possibly Work. Because while there is Hundreds of Submarine Players who would like to Play it with their Submarines. But other Ships Players wont because well why would they Play Mode that has nothing Special except another Enemy making Live harder for them lol. Now let me Ask you this. Submarines being Implemented is Guaranteed. This is not up for Discussion. But Implementing them as a Different Gamemode is clearly not Working. So what do you think will happen ? :)

Not to be mean there. But You do Realize that if WG cant get Results for this from Testing it in a Seperate Mode. They will not Cancel Subs but instead call the Seperate Mode a Failure and move to Test Subs in Randoms right ? Why would Wargaming Implement Subs as a Different Mode when they cant even get a Test Mode running ? Your Basicly Forcing them to put Subs into Randoms as fast as possible lol.

As a BB you should not Cap till lategame lol. As for moving forward. That might become easier actually. Currently Cruisers sit behind Cover and Burn down people that come to close. Meanwhile DDs linger in between the Fleets with their 100-200k Torp Alpha to eradicate anyone who Pushes without Support. But in between the Fleets. Subs have an advantage over DDs. Because they can avoid Fire from the Enemy Team. The Position of DDs is therefor Pushed back towards their own Fleet where they have the Edge over the Enemy Subs as they dont need to worry about being Spotted too much. And Cruisers if they dont have DDs in Front are much easier to kill. Subs are not fast. And dont have Range. They cant just Intercept a Flanking Maneuver like a DD. Because they cant get in the path fast enough and they cant drop a Torpedo Fan to Block off an Area. So Cruisers behind Islands suddenly have to worry about BBs Pushing around their Cover or a Sub Sneaking to their Cover and Obliterating them with a Sudden Attack. Its Unclear if Subs will make the Game Faster and cause more Pushes or more Longrange Fighting. But Subs are an Incredible Threat against anyone just Sitting Stationary Somewhere. So they will at least Reduce Camping and make People move around.

1. Its actually Funny that you state that Driving over a Sub takes no Skill but later in your Post Point out how people got killed by the Sub Surfacing close range and Firing Torps from there..... Because guess what. Skill Required. You have to make sure that you dont just Drive into the Sub. But rather Strafe it like it was a BB whose Turrets are turning after you and which you want to Torp. Because Subs Maneuverability SUX. The have trouble following you. And if you go sideways for them they need to lead you which you can see when they come up and evade. And No. I am Pointing out that Submarines have Limitations. They HAVE TO come close if they want to do something. So they HAVE TO come into a place where its them vs your Team. A Good Player will Survive till Mid to Lategame IN EVERY DAMN CLASS lol. But if you do it by sitting back and waiting. Gratulations you are just as useless as DDs which can also be Untouchable with that Method right now lol. Also thanks for Confirming you never bothered checking Subs properly. Waterbombs ALWAYS do Damage. Even on max Depth. Damage just is Reduced. But nowhere near enough to Survive long. And guess what. The Sub is the one 10-15km away from its Fleet. So the DD wont care so much to be visible for the 20 seconds longer the Sub lives. 2. Patience and Timing in a 20 minute Game.... No offense. But I.ll take Shima with 16km Torps. No risk of being Spotted. Much more Damage output. Much better chance to hit something. And if ai get attack I.ll be out there much faster and have way more HP. Its useless of course. But still has more effect than a Sub doing it lol. 3. Sure. Because getting closer to an Enemy Player Formation is certainly easier than getting close to Yoloing Bots.... Any other Jokes you want to tell me ? 4. And funny enough the Counter to CVs is yours :) But Subs take away a Great Deal of Influence from you. Which seems to bother you :) 5. Not sure how you keep getting on this 1vs1 bullcrab. Nothing I said would work in a 1 vs 1 because 1 vs 1 the Sub has no chance against a DD. Because my whole Point is that Subs cant hide in their Team due to lack of Range and thus have to go forward to hit the Enemy Team which will make them Vulnearble to that Teams DDs. Also pls Spare me WG messed up CV etc rubbish. By that Logic Game Development is Dead and nithing new should ever be added cause WG will just mess up anyways. And you finding it boring is your problem lol. If I just said no Skill Required. Took my Shima and just Yoloed to lay a Torp Fan that is just as boring. But thats not how you Play DD is it ? Lol...... 6. People actually havnt stopped at all. There still is Hundreds in there all the time. Just who could posdibly have guessed it. Most people in Sub Testing Mode want to test SUBS. I know. Thats just too logical right. People interested in Subs wanting to Play Subs and not BBs. What a Crazy Idea..... Hence 95% of Players want to be the Submarine. As for WGs Competence see what I already said before.

The Skill and Action is not Pressing the Button to Drop Bombs. The Skill and Action is to get into the Position where you can Drop them. And Yes. i Expect you will be able to Run over a Submarine in a Proper Game. Because guess what. The Subs will want to actually do Damage and Spotting themselves. And here comes the first Problem. Their Range on everything is Limited. This means they have to actually get Close to Enemy Ships. Because they cant actually Torpedo them from 15km away where they are Safely Sitting in front of their own Fleet which will Hopefully Kill an Enemy DD that comes approaching it before it can kill them. On Surface their Vision Range is at least Full. But their own Concealment is also not that good. Its Better than DDs. But the Difference is like 1km. And when considering that your Submarine is pretty Slow and Extremely Horrible at Turning. You realize pretty quickly that 1km is practically nothing in terms of an Advantage in Spotting. So effectively. If you Spot a DD. Guess what. The Difference is about the same as it is between Gun and Torpedo DDs. Just that unlike the Torpedo DDs Spotting that Scary Gun DD. You dont have the Speed and Maneuverability to get out of their fast enough. So what happens ? You have to Dive. And here things get Funny. Cause guess what. When below the Surface. Your own Vision Range is like 5km..... Yep. 4-5km.... So effectively anything beyond that is Untouchable for you. Moreover you become Extremely Slow. Now think about this. When your Submerged you cant See anything beyond 4-5km. Much less Ping it. But if you Ping on the Surface. Your Concealment Blooms to like 8km. So enough for even Gun DDs to Spot you First. And you not only Die from like 4-5 Good HE Hits. But also even Closeby Hits count as Hit. And you have to Do it about 4 to 5 Times on this kind of range because otherwise they lose the Lock. Needless to say that this assume you ALWAYS hit lol. So Yeah. Great Idea. Good Luck having nobody maybe after the First Ping get the Idea to pull his Guns that way and wait for a Second Ping. I doubt it. I mean you could in Theory Launch Torps without a Ping at all. Or only do 1 Single Ping after the Torps are almost there. Which would Greatly reduce the Risk of being Oneshotted. But that basicly means. You Launch Torps like a DD. And you got far less Torpedo Power than most DDs. Needless to say you also have a far smaller Spread and would still need to actually Hit that Single Ping right on the First Attampt at this Range. So Yeah good luck with that. Honestly said. In that case better take a DD cause you wont be having any Notable Effect on anything in that Match as a Sub. So lets Face it. If you want Damage you will need to get Close. And getting Close isnt that easy either. Because guess what. Unlike the Testing Mode. The Enemies arent Yoloing People that dont care and Bots that Yolo as well. But actual Players which at least the Majority of wont Yolo forward. So. Either on Surface to about 5km so you can Torp from Surface without a Ping. (which is no different than a DD just with less Torpedo Power but in exchange from a 1km shorter Range) Or you have to get into 5km and Torp from below Water with Pings. Which is really Dangerous for an Enemy BB. But lets face it. 5km from an Enemy Ship ? Your Fleet wont do anything about that DD which for them is likely between 10-15km away and Rushing towards you. Because your basicly below the Enemy Fleet at this Point. And Yes. That DD will likely very easily Drop Bombs on your Head lol. As for Player Skill Involvement. Thats not Limited to Subs. Unskilled Cruiser Players cant deal with being Spotted by a DD they cant see themselves either. And tend to just get Killed then. But that doesnt mean we Remove DDs right :) Long Story Short. Pls Drop this Idea of Untouchable Subs Pls. Your basicly putting Subs into the Game and Assume the Meta will not Change at the Slightest. Assuming that basicly Subs and DDs will meet in the Capture Point or in Free Water like DDs do. And thus the DD as he cant Avoid Fire from Cruisers etc loses by Default. But thats unlikely to be how it Works. When Subs come. And DDs start Realizing that if they try to Hunt Subs 5km away from Enemy Fleet they Die. They will start Playing more in the Rear as well. Meanwhile Subs once they notice that Sitting at 12km away and trying to somehow Hit a Ship with 2 Torps on long Range while constantly running the Risk of being Spotted by a DD or Enemy Sub when they try to use a Ping to make their Torpedoes Home in on Target isnt really Producing any Results. Will actually start doing what DDs do right now. And will start to try and get close to the Enemy or into the Way where the Enemy is Pushing so they can get good Strikes out. Meaning that once the Meta has Established. DDs will likely most of the Time Win against Subs because the Subs will be the one who has to get into their Domain if they want to actually do any Damage. Subs meanwhile will likely Fight over Capture Points with DDs only providing Rear Support like Cruisers. And Subs will likely be the Class to go Vanguard and Spot. With DDs taking a Position Closer to their own Teams Cruisers. On this one I unfortunately have to Agree. WG messed up here. Their ridiculous urge to turn everything into Gambling made this Test entirely useless. Because yes of course. If you have a New Class. Then People will want to Play either that Class or the Class Countering it. And who had Guessed. The People actually wanting to Play that Gamemode is in vast Majority People Interested in that Class which of course WANT TO TEST THAT CLASS.... And not Play other Ships..... I know. Minor Details right Wargaming............. Now hopefully they will Learn from this. And next Time make the Test Mode Missions a bit more Focused on actually getting other Ships into this. Easiest Example. Make 4 Missions. Each Mission basicly is. Win 5 Matches. One for BB, One for CA, One for DD and one for CV. These Missions can be Repeated Once per Day. And each of the Missions upon Completing it. Give you 1 Submarine Token. 1 Submarine Token can be Exchanged for a Rental Submaine that is Rented for 1 Hour. (Maybe also throw some Additional Rewards into the Mix like Cheaper Signals and Camos. Or some Free Exp/Credits etc.) This way. Every Day. If you want to Play Submarine. You have to Choose a Class. And you have to Play Games with the Actual Intention to Win it.... And after that you get 1 Hour Submarine Gameplay at a Time of your Choice. Now up to you if you do all Missions fors 3 days and then basicly got a Sub for 12 Hours Straight. Or if you do 1 Mission then Play 1 Hour Sub then do 1 more Mission etc. But at least. This way there is some Reason to Play All Ships. And there is a Reason for that to Occur EACH DAY. Unlike now. Where 1st Day was Alright. Except nobody cared for Winning. But then with each day the Number of Subs Increased and basicly everyone wanted to Play only the Subs.....

Erm. No. German Ships were only Named after Launch. And the Letter Designation given to same had no Indication on the Actual Name given to it Later. H was a Simple Designation by Letters. It had no Correlation to any actual Names. The Designation for the Class was the Letter Assigned to the First Ship in that Class. Germany had 6 Planned Battleships. H, J, K, L, M, N As H was the First one. The Class was Called H-Class Battleship afterwards. In the Game the Ship is now called Friedrich der Grosse. In Reality the Ship was never Named. And there is no Suggested Name in the Official Documents of the Ship. Based on the Letter. The Idea that the Ship might have been Named after Hindenburg arrived very Quickly. But there is no Official Confrimation of that anywhere as far as I know.

I agree with the Name Change. Spending 2 Minutes to read up on it and now I would not exactly like to Sail a Ship Named after this Guy either. But I also have to really say this is quite the Doublestandard. Given that we got Stalingrad in the Game which is Named after Stalin. One of the very few People in History that managed kill even more Innocent People than Hitler. Needless to Say Lenin isnt exactly a Name without such Baggage either.

Thanks Mate :)

Sorry for Creating a Topic on the Question. I got very limited Connection right now. So my Smartphone just isnt managing to load the News Articles so I could check myself. Would someone be so nice and tell me when Directives are closed ?

Well. Funny enough. If I post like that while Supporting their Argument. They all dont seem to Mind at all *gg* Including you by the way. I also Find it Hilarious that you complain about me Posting like what I say was Undeniable Facts. Just to then do exactly the same and on top Complain that I dare to Deny your Statements to be Facts ^^ So Maybe Fingers on your own Nose there :)

The Place will be Randoms. WG doesnt want to have Split Gamemodes. The Right Way is what the Tests are for to Find. And a Choice will not be Offered aside from Influencing how Subs end up. X for Doubt ^^ WG also Said that CVs are Pretty well Balanced and that RTS is working well for CVs ^^ Then they made the Rework ^^ Which they now also Say works fine and CVs are pretty well Balanced with it. But New Ships all come with Disproportional Strong AA and other Anti CV Gimmicks xD As for Subs being Implement as part of their Wish to make Money thats not a Surprise. Everything they do. Every Single Ship they make. And even any Balancing Changes they make. Are done for Marketing Reasons. That Includes them having a Healthy Game. Because guess what. They want this Game to be Healthy and Alive to make Money for them. And for no other Reason ;) 1. Nope. :) I did Provide Arguments. I have Several Times already Explained that the Reason I want Subs in the Game is because they will Change the Meta. And because they will take away Jobs from DDs thus making the DDs less Influental for example. You not Agreeing with me does not change the Fact that I have made these Arguments. 2. You do Realize that People have used the "It will Promote Camping Argument" about every Time anything has been Added to the Game too Right ? :) And Sorry to Tell you. But you claim Camping has Increased. But I dont see any more Camping than I did even in the Frigging Beta Times lol. BBs Sitting on 20km Range and Refusing to move Forward and Cruisers Camping on Islands for the Whole Match was something we had in the Game From Day 1 onward. :) 3. Whose Experience ? :) Because I also had Games without DDs. And Guess what. It usually resulted in Combat Range being Closer because there wasnt Pesky Invisible Torp Launchers in between. Of course this wont Result in People just Yoloing Forward. That would be Stupid because Cruisers can Focus down BBs as well. But without the Pesky Invisible Torp Launchers in between Spotting you for Cruisers that then Shoot you from Positions you cant even See them in. The Battle moved more towards a 10-12km Range instead of the 15-20km Range you often have thanks to DDs Occupying the Area in between. Your Personal Biased Experience to this is Irrelevant to me Mate :) Just like mine is to you. 4. Truth Hurts doesnt it :) 5. YES. And Guess what. I WANT THEM TO MESS WITH IT AND CHANGE THE FREAKING GAME. I think I repeated it like 100 times now. But the Main Reason that I want Submarines is because they will Change the Meta. Right now DDs are the Go to Class that Wins Matches. Thanks to being Invisible Torp Launchers. They can Break any Push and Allow any Push. They are the one Deciding Factor for Everything. Because they are the Class that can Attack and Spot you constantly without being Visible. That is why they are in 9 out of 10 Matches the Factor that Decides Matches. That is till CVs came along and basicly broke this Rule. Because they could Spot DDs all the time and Attack them without the DD being able to do much about it. And Bam. The most Deciding Factor of the Match was Suddenly something that 1 Single Player could take out of the Game by himsef. Submarines however have the Potential to Change this Meta. Submarines thanks to the Ability to Dive can unlike DDs. Avoid being Invalidated by CVs. At the same Time their Ability to Spot DDs without being Spotted or Killed themselves. Forces DDs to instead take a more Defensive Role with the Subs now Taking over the Offensive Role they had. The Subs are Designed to basicly Split up the Job of DDs. Making DDs Vastly less Influental while at the same time themselves being a Class that wont easily be taken out of the Game. A Good Sub Player wont be Killed till Mid or Late Game. Lol. ANY GOOD PLAYER wont be Killed IN ANY CLASS until Mid or Late Game. If they Yolo and Die they aint Good Players no matter what Class they are lol. But Subs are much easier to Remove in the Early Game. Unlike DDs they cant just be Permaspotted and Airstriked out of the Game thus Eradictating almost all Chances of the Team behind that DD Winning the Match. And that is exactly why I want Submarines. I WANT THEM TO CHANGE THE GAME META for Heavens Sake. lol 6. Answer to that is the same as before Mate. You just like all others Judge me based on wether or not I agree with you or not. In your Biased Eyes me Agreeing with you means I would be Clever. While if I disagree with you I would be Stupid. If I Admit to be Wrong and that you would be Right. I would be Honest and True. But if I dare claiming the Opposite then I am Dishonest and just dont want to Admit Fault ^^ Sorry. But thats just sooo bland and obvious ^^ And I dont Care :) Because my Opinion is my Opinion. And it will not be Altered just so you have a better Opinion of me *gg* Now. I would like to give back a Comment like I tought better of you than to be so petty. But unlike you I have long given up Hope in this kind of thing. Humans tend to be like this. They will automaticly have a Good Opinion of People that Agree with them. And a Bad Opinion of People that Disagree with them. Regardless of the Objective Outcome of that Exchange :) So Sorry. But even if you Repeat another 10 Times that you would have such a much better Opinion of me when I just said Yes and Amen to anything you Claim. But it wont Change my Opinion and it wont Change the Answer you Get :)

So your Response is basicly the Typical "I am right your wrong because I say so" thingy without any arguments ^^ Not that I expected much. But no matter. Subs will Come Mate. Do yourself a Favor and instead of being Salty about it. Rather think about ways to make them Good. Because searching for Complaints to Refuse them being added wont work ;)

1. More Passive ? How ? ^^ Everyone is already Camping behind Islands all Day thanks to CVs and DDs. This cant get more Passive really. In Fact. Subs due to the Ability Sneak up on Targets. Have the Potential to Force People into Moving. Because if you stand on some Island with your BB Nose in. Your an Super easy Target for Citadel Torps. 2. A Good Sub Player ? You Suddenly the Expert on this ? ^^ Sorry but I call Bullcrab on that Claim of yours :) Because Subs with their Incredible Torpedo, Ping and Vision Range. Have to get Pretty Close to the Enemy to actually do anything. So unless they basicly Sit back Safely in Cover of their Fleet where they cant do anything at all. They wont be Save and can Die very Quickly. And Sorry. But if a DD Sits Back with his Fleet. Then he wont be killed either. So no Difference Whatsoever. Except that at least some DDs do have the Torpedo Range to actually do something to the Enemy without getting very Close lol. But See Mate. You already talk Balance. WG actually Stated that Balance is not even on the Table yet. Because they dont even know wether Subs will actually work like they do right now. It makes no Sense to Worry about Balancing them when you dont even know wether or not they will be able to Surface at all lol. You dont even know if they will be able to Spot others while Submerged etc. Because WG might just completely change the Concept again as they already did Twice during the Testing. Your finding Fault with the Penetration of a Shell when there isnt even a Decision on which Shell will be used :) Not that I am Surprised. You dont want Subs. You are 100% Biased against them. So you dont even try to look for good Points. You look for Reasons to not Implement them at all. Gladly they will be Implemented regardless of that. And you wasting your Chances to Improve them by only finding faults with them and demanding them removed just means that gladly your Opinion wont be taken into Consideration on Importand things ;) 3. What makes me Laugh is a Discord Poll ^^ But thats a Different Issue. Submarine Battle is Filled with Submarines because the People Interested in Submarine want to Play Submarine LOL. I know thats almost too Logical to Understand. Who had tought that the People which are Interested in Submarine Testing would want to Play Submarines of all things right :) Such Strange People xD

Your Dataset is Flawed. Because I want to Play Subs but dont appear in that Queque because Waiting Times for Subs are too long.

1. Fallacy. The only Reason I depend on DDs is because Enemy has DDs. And being Dependent on Random Bobs isnt Enjoyable at all. 2. Fallacy. People move into Spotting and Shooting Range. DDs decrease that Range. They dont remove it. 3. So I am a Terrible Player. Tell me more about it. Bit Fact is. DDs are currently the Class doing everything. If your DDs Die (usually due to CV) Game is most of the Time Over. Thats what any Good Player knows. Subs will take away alot of Influence from DDs. Which will be Good for the Game 4. Lol. Sorry but I dont give a Crab lol. People Judge how Reasonable someone is purely on wether he agrees with them or not. Thats why I on Purpose always say that I am Stubborn instead of claiming to have a Strong Will. Because both means the same. Just one is used when others wont bend towards your favored opinion while the other is used when they refuse to bend away from your favored opinion. And I expect most People here including you to therefore change their mind on me the moment they disagree with me on a Topic *gg* 5. Thats your extremely Biased Opinion. Mine is Different :) And well mate. Cruisers are just Destroyers with Bigger Guns :) Subs will bring a New Meta. A Change to the current System where the DDs Rule the Outcome of a Match and turn the CV into a Kingmaker as he has the Sole Power to remove them and thus Seal the Deal instead of them. :) And thats something I welcome Greatly. As it will Finally Break up this Stale Rubbish we got right now.

Your Hate towards Subs and Especially your extreme Distrust to Wargaming makes you just as biased, if not even more. And Yes. Subs have been in Testing for a While. And WG is still in a Phase with it where after every 2nd Testing Round they basicly changed entire Concepts of that Test. Your extreme prejudice against this is clouding your Judgement. They are Experimenting with the Rough Gameplay Mechanics and you are looking at Minor Exploits in the System that can be Fixed easily once they actually decided if this Mechanic works for Submarine Gameplay. And lol. If they made a Mode without DDs I wanna See how many BBs Play that one. Because DDs make BB Live sooo invredible Fun lol xD