Sunleader

I dont like Throwing a Tantrum. And if there is one thing I have a Principle about. It is that I will not try to Stay when the Host doesnt want me. If the Host decides to Kick me Out I will go and stay away. Always done that. And will always do that. No Sense in being Angry about it. Its their Place. They can Trash it, Burn it or whatever. Also. I wonder if they would even Ban anyone. I think they just dont care anymore. And thats really the thing. The Reason they Shut down the Forum is because they dont give a Crab about anything out of it. Including whatever Backlash comes from it for Closing it. This Forum has been a Toxic Cesspit for Years and from WGs Viewpoint all it does is Produce Negative Feedback about changes, People Analyzing and trashing WG whenever they mess up or lie to people and create a Dumpster Fire when WG is caught doing something shady or greedy. As You Say. in 2 Days Basicly Everyone is Banned. So Funny enough whatever Reaction the Community gives will be Vastly Inferior to even former Uprisings against things. And thats likely exactly why WG is doing this. They want to get Rid of this and move to a Platform where any such stuff can easily be Drowned out and Forgotten. Just like before. The only Effective move You have against WG is to Vote with Your Wallet. We will See how this Move by WG affects that Wallet. In my Case. Nothing WG ever did before had a higher Likelihood of me Stopping to Play World of Warships. Not because I dislike the Game or want to Boycot it. But because Forums like this are Generally what Binds me to a Game Longterm and makes sure that despite taking Breaks inbetween. I Always come back to Play a few Rounds now and then. Without this Forum now and then Reminding me of WoWs. What will happen is that the next time I take a Break and dont Play it for a Week. This week will Grow longer and with nothing to remind me of WoWs. It will Simply Fade and be Forgotten. So Far the Only Games I Played Longterm have always been the Game which had Forums and thus kept me attached to the Game even when currently being Busy Playing something else. And whenever I left a Forum of such a Game. It has 100% of the Time Resulted in me also Leaving that Game a few Months Later. I doubt it will be Different here.

The Queston You need to Ask Yourself is. What Customer is WG Selling to ? See Mate. People often Wonder how People can Fall for these Scam Emails of having Won a Big Prize Or them having been Selected as Inheritor of someone Rich Or even just that Weird Amazon Scam Mail telling them their Account was Blocked and they need to Type in their Data on this link etc. Because People think they are very Smart and thus they are not Falling for this. For them this is Obvious of course etc. But the Reason these Scammers make these Emails so Obvious actually Serves a very Simple Purpose. They dont want to Deal with Smart People which may Ask Questions and Realize the Scam before the Scammers can Empty their Bank Account. They want the People so Stupid and Gullible that they never Suspected the Scam and Readily gave the Scammers everything. And well. Its the same Here. Why would WG be Interested in the Information and Feedback of People that Actually have Experience and Play the Game. When their Target Audience is New Casual Players that just Play the Game and Buy Shiny Premiumships which Promise an Advantage ? Inviting a Bunch of Wine Testers to tell You about Your Product when You want to Sell Cheap Beer in a Papercup is just not a very Usable Idea Mate. And as I already Explained to the other Guy. No Mate. This Forum Costs next to Nothing. A Server for this Forum doesnt even Count as Pocket Change for WG. And if they were Hard up for Money. They would not do something that is Guaranteed to Result in a Backlash and Old Players Leaving. This Move most of all Shows one thing. WG is so Securerly Stuffed with New Players that they dont care about the Older Players in this Forum anymore. They are in a Position where they can Shove a Giant Middlefinger into this Communities Face knowing that its no longer a noteworthy loss for them. Or Would You Kick Your Regulars out of Your Restaurant when You are Hard up for Money ? :)

More than half of these are not Community Platforms but Social Media where You Publish something and the closest Feedback and Interaction with You is a Comment to it. Next Your gonna Tell me that You Buying Ads on Websites and Mobile Games is a Platform as well ??? But that aside. So You dont want to get Rid of the Community here ???? Sure. And because You would sooo much like to Actually carry over the People from the Forum You Shut it Down on 3 Days after the Announcement. Because Clearly that way Nobody will come here and basicly wonder why the Hell he cant Post anymore lol Not like usually in such Cases it would be Announced Months in Advance to make sure everyone gets the message and People can Properly Migrate over before the Forum actually Shuts down. Who are You trying to Kid there Mate ? You really think People we are this Stupid ???? And Mate no Offense. But Discord cant replace the Forum 1 to 1 ??? Discord is not a Forum. Discord is a Chatroom. Nobody in his Right Mind would ever even attempt to Replace the Forums with this. How much of a Discussion are You thinking You will get with 500 Case Limit in a Chatroom ??? Imagine this Forum only having 1 Topic for each Category as a whole. And everyone trying to Discuss Different Topics in that lol Yeah not happening. Guys no Offense. But If You want to Kid someone Kid Your Parents or Something. Nobody whose IQ reaches Doubledigits Falls for that Bullcrab of this enhancing the engagement or anything lol. There is only One Plausible Reason for a Major Company like WG to Shut down the Forums in this Manner. And this Reason is that they want to get Rid of the Community in that Forum. Any other Reason that would even remotely make Sense would Require a Different Approach. I mean Seriously ??? Focus and Enhance ???? Really ??????? I mean come on. This Bullcrab is so Obviously fake that I am not even Sure that You really believe this Obvious Excuse would Work or if that Obvious Excuse is on Purpose to Show the Forum Community a Giant Middle Finger. Lets be Honest here Mate. The Reason You Switch to Discord is exactly because its not a Forum. Having things Forgotten about and removing the Ability to have Serious Retracable Arguments in Detail is Horrible if You want actual Feedback. But its Perfect if You want to get Rid of Negative Feedback. And if this Rids You of the by now Pretty Toxic and Negative Forum Community then all the Better.

It is. And Frankly this is Actually Evidence of that. Dont get me Wrong. But this Forum Costs them Nothing. I could Host a Forum like this on my Home PC if I wanted to. Not to mention Renting a Server for this would not even Qualify as Change for WG. Them actually taking the Hit of Closing the Forums despite without a Doubt being Aware that this will Annoy Parts of the Community and Cause them to Potentially not just Leave the Community but even Leave the Game entirely. Shows Pretty Strongly that they are in a Position where they just dont care about the People in this Forum. I said this before. But look around. Most Topics are Filled with People that have Thousands of Battles. And WG has been Targeting New Players instead for Years by now. So far they have at least given some Lipservice to the Veterans and at least now and then tried to Accomondate them. But this Move of Shutting down the Forum where all the Veterans are. And instead Focus on the Discord where most New Players Go. Is basicly WG Shoving their Middle Finger right up the Face of these Veterans. WG has effectively Decided that this Forum is so Incredible Irrelevant at this Point. That its actually better to just Cut it Off. Thats not a Move a Dying Game would make.

Most likely I wont Migrate anywhere. Shutting down the Forums to me Equals Shutting down the Community. The Audacity to even Suggest Discord as an Alternative is a Joke. Discord is basicly as it each Category in this Forum was a Single Topic. Thus all Topics and the Answers to their Topics just being Posted all over each other. Its Impossible to have any Meaningful Feedback or Discussion there. And its not meant to do that either. Its a Chatroom. Not a Forum. I may still here about the Game on YouTube because of Jingles. But well. Thats basicly it. With the Forum Gone it basicly means I wont see Updates coming or anything like that. Because all of that is something I always got from the Forums. For all Effects and Purposes. The Forum Shutting Down means that my Enagement into the Games Community is Shut Down as well. In the Past. Whenever a Forum went down. I also a Short Time Later left the Game itself. Not because I dislike the Game. But because any Game I am not Actively Playing Right now will usually take a Back Seat. And unless there is an Alive Community that brings it back to Memory by Pointing out Interesting things about it. Or News from it. I usually just Forget about it and dont actually See when Updates or other things happen. Thus over Time it just Fades and I stop Playing entirely. And well. I have a Feeling this will happen here as well.

Likewise Mate. And I do mean that as well.

Thats the thing. Discord is a Platform for Live Communication. So Communication NOW. In this Moment. Some People may Read Stuff from Yesterday. But 2-3 Days Ago is Rare. And anything older than a Week could basicly just be Deleted. Because nobody Cares. And well. This basicly means any Discussion is Limited to Only who is there right now. And will be Forgotten 2 Days Later by the Vast Majority. Making any Proper Argument or Discussion completely Irrelevant. And also making any Bigger Discussion between a Larger Number of People Impossible. (And well. I have a Feeling thats another thing WG actually wants.) Forums are a Permanent Communications Platform. Where You Talk with People that might never even be Online at the Same Time as You. This Allows for Discussions over Days and Weeks. As well as making it Possible to Create References. But well. The Decision already was Made. And You can bet. WG has Decided for a Reason to Announce it just a Day before People can Stop Posting. They know Perfectly well that the Community is Destroyed by this. And they want to Stifle any Potential Formation of Resistance before it Forms. So they are Shutting Down as Quickly as Possible.

Well. Seems thats it. WG Decided that this Toxic Cesspool of Veterans where the Majority of Regulars has 10k Battles is no Longer worth maintaining ^^ So they threw in the Towel and decided to Run away to Discord where there is more New and Positive Players. Now. Frankly. Given that it seems we wont be able to actually have this Discussion Properly. I dont feel like making a Full Post. My Apologies for that. But if the Forum Really is Shut down Today (because without anyone Posting its Effectively Shut Down even if it can be Read till Late October) there is just no real reason to even have this Discussion. To begin with. We already Agree that Submarines are Underperforming compared to other Class. Which was actually the only Claim I made to begin with. And which Bear and Smegger claimed to be False. So there really isnt much beyond that anyways. Our Disagreements mostly Focuses on 3 things. 1. I dont think that Games Should ever be Balanced by Unicums. No Offense. But Balancing by the Best Players NEVER Works. Because it does not take into Account the Difficult of actually Playing a Ship. And this Difficulty is Generally something that has a Huge Impact on how Good a Ship is. Which however is Purely an Opinion/Preference. Its not something we can really Force an Agreement on without Testing both. 2. I think this is an Arcade Game. And as such Performance of the Classes should be as Close as Possible to each other. DDs and Subs Underperforming is both Bad. But DDs only Underperformed on Damage. On the other Stuff they did not Underperform. Which is to be Expected because alot of them Fight other DDs which means they Fight more Low HP Classes. Subs however Underperform on Damage And Kills. Which Shows they are too Weak. And they dont Primarily Focus on Fighting other Subs or DDs. Which means they dont have that Excuse for low Damage either. But again. Wether or not there should be an Underperforming Class is an Opinion/Preference. We will never Possibly Agree on this. 3. People Adapting. Now this one would be the one thing I would have Discussed more if the Forum wasnt Shutting Down. Because dont get me wrong. But Historie of this Game Showed very Clearly that People simply do not Adapt. Thus there being absolutely no Sense in Expecting this. But its a Discussion that would last Days... So Yeah.... Well then. Wish ya a Nice Day Mate. Too bad we couldnt have a Proper Discussion on this. After all. Even Opinions should be Discussed usually. But the World keeps Spinning and this Forum does not. See Ya somewhere Maybe. ^^ You can have as many of these as You want ^^ But nobody cares ^^ Dont get me Wrong. I did Consider if I should give You the Reaction to these that I got Months Ago when I and several others kept Posting Screenshots of us Roflstomping Subs, Evading their Homing Torps etc. And it was Immediately Dismissed as "Oh but You dont Play the Weaker Ships. You only Play the Super OP ones. It doesnt Count" Which in your case with Gato would Fit Perfectly xD But well. I guess I no longer have to make that Decision as WG has Decided to Give up on the Forums and, with their Tails tugged tighly in between their Legs, Run Away to Discord where there is more Newer and Positive Players. ^^ So well. See Ya somewhere Mate. Maybe Ingame. Or maybe one Day in Discord assuming either of us even bothers going there. Because I dont feel any Drive to right now xD

Yeah. No Thanks. You are Open to Suggestions after You basicly Announced the Decision to Shut down the Community with a 1 Day Notice ? LOOOOOOOL Dont get me Wrong. But Discord is Discord. And Forum is Forum. Discord is not a Forum. Its not Suitable to be used as a Forum either. And Pls Spare me that Corporate Excuse Speech lol. WG is not such a Small Company that they would not be able to Handle two Platforms if they wanted to. Just Admit it. This Forum is Dominated by the Old Salty Veterans which are Generally more Negative to the Game. And WG wants to get Rid of it. I have a Distinct Feeling that many of the People here wont Join Discord. And You are not just ready to Accept that. Its actually Something You want. *gg* Well. Its Sad to See it Go in a Sense. Albeit I also Fully Agree with it being very Toxic as of Late. Still. WG just Abandoning the Forums basicly means WG is Abandoning the Community as a whole. And if the Internet has Tought me one thing over the Years. Is that this Never Works out. It just means all the Negativity of the Game Starts going into Independent Platforms elsewhere.

This is quite Hilarious. ^^ Guess that just means there will be no WoWs Community anymore. Well. Cant Say I.ll miss it. Its was a Toxic Cesspool for Years Now. But Man. I never Expected WG to just throw in the Towel and Give up on the Forums entirely xD

You need to learn Reading. I said the Strongest T10 Sub. Salmon is T8.... And Time is Irrelevant to this. Again Mate. Its a Simple Mathematical Reality. All Classes are 49.xx Winrate. Because each Time a Sub Wins. Another Sub Loses. Winrates of Individual Ships are Higher because they Win over other Ships of the same Class. But that other Ship in exchange gets a lower Winrate. Hence why the Class Winrate remains at 50% It dropping to 49.xx% being because Draws are counted as Loss for both. Not entirely True as DDs have actually received Buffs in that Timeframe. Just that WG mostly Buffed DDs by Implementing New Stronger DDs that have Countermeasures against the Problems DDs had or had other pretty OP Gimmicks. Needless to say. The Captain Skill Rework also did ALOT of Rebalancing under the Guise of Rework. Problem is. Both are True for any other Class as well. Yet they dont Underperform so Badly. Albeit we are Already one Step Further than with Bear as You at least Acknowledge Submarines Underperforming. Fallacy. unicums will Generally Perform Good even with Bad Ships. Skill is a Big Factor in this Game. And a Unicum Shimakaze will often Massacre a Potato Harugumo in a Brawl despite being the Weaker Ship. Also. Gato has way higher Average Numbers than other T10 Subs. So there is nothing Strange here. And how are they Different ? I Checked a few and they have Partially Higher Damage Differences and roughly the same Kill Difference. But this is All Compared to their own Class. It Tells You nothing about how Strong the Class is. It only Tells You how Strong the Ships inside the Class are Compared to each other. Not to mention again. WG does not Balance by Unicums. Unicum Players are Unicums for a Reason. A Trained Soldier with a Revolver will still easily take down an Untrained Civillian which got the Latest High Powered Sniper Rifle. So Unicums being able to make do is not really Relevant to this. Not to Mention this all Falls Apart once You Compare it between the Classes. Because even the Top Gato Player right now still cant reach the Results of the Top Bourgogne Players. Uhm. Just saying. But You do Realize that actually. Weaker Ships have higher Ranges right ? If You look at the less well Performing T10 Cruisers and BBs You quickly Notice they actually also got 150-200% Numbers on this. Not Surprising either. As Explained above. Unicums are Good at Outbalancing Disadvantages with Skill and not allowing the Enemy to take Advantage from them. While also being able to Extract the Advantages from Weaker Ships that Average Players cant manage to get out. So Actually Your Argument is Self Defeating there. Albeit I dont Agree with it in the First Place. As I said. Comparing Unicums is Completely Irrelevant to this. The Game is not Balanced by Unicums Mate. Balancing is and always will be done by the Results from the Average Players which are in the Game by the 100k+ Numbers. Not by the Results from the few Hundred Top Scorers. No Offense. But trying to Balance a Game by assuming that Players will Learn to Play on a High Skill level is just not Realistic. Not to mention that this goes Both Ways. I mean Seriously. Take a Look at this Topic alone. The Vast Majority of Sub Haters in here dont even Try to Learn how to Counter a Submarine. Yet You think the Average Submarine Player will be better and actually Start Improving himself rather than telling WG that Subs are Underpowered and need a Buff because he keeps getting Sunk ???? Lol. Yeah No Man. Sorry. But I think believing in Santaclaus is more Realistic. As for Subs not having Guns and thus not being able to Secure a Kill on Low HP Targets. Well Mate. Thats is Perfectly Accurate. And guess what. Its a Major Disadvantage for that Class.

Meh.

The moment You said "Someone has to be last" You frankly Already Admitted that You know I am right and that Subs now took the Spot of the Weakest Performance. Not to mention. You guys keep Hanging Yourselfs Up on Damage alone. What About Kills ? What about Subs still not reaching the Higher Exp Levels despite having Buffed Exp Gains ? :) Uhm. The Numbers are Public. Anyone can Look at them You know.....

I See You are still Trying Hard. But albeit I assume You said this by pure Accident. Your First Statement is actually Correct. Pls Judge the "SHIP" by its Winrate. Mind You. the "SHIP" not the "Class" And if You do that you Notice. The Strongest T10 Sub is the Steel Sub Gato with 51.5% Winrate. Which means that its the Strongest T10 Submarine which therefore Outperforms the other Submarines. Mind You this doesnt tell You anything when Compared to other Class Winrates. Because Winrate only Competes between Players (Skill) and inside a Class (Best Ship of the Class) The Strongest DDs by the way are in the 55% Range. Which is not Surprising. Because there is far more DDs. And thus there is far more Competition inside the Class to get Winrate From. As for them not being Long enough in the Game. I absolutely Agree. So how Come You keep Claiming that they are Overpowered and Outperform all other Classes when You actually Agree that its too Early to make Definitive Statements and the Numbers are Actually Saying Exactly the Opposite of Your Claims ? If You ask me. You are the one with the Odd Hill. Because its Beyond Proven and Clear that they are not really Comparable in Performance Terms at all. As I said Mate. The Statistics dont Lie. And while You can Say "oh the Damage Numbers aint 100% Foolproof" the Damage Numbers Align with with the other Values and the other Values give the Same Picture of Submarines just Performing Weaker. I mean dont get me Wrong. But this isnt even something where You need Arguments or Explanations. The Numbers are just so Obviously Clear and Evident that Questioning this Fact is just not worthwhile Mate. But well. As I said. I am not going to have a Kidding Match with You. If You want to keep Claiming that Subs and DDs Perform roughly Equally. Then be my Guest. But as Always. I prefer to Trust Statistics and Numbers more than someones Personal Experience.