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I so hope Foch is coming to WoWs, we need CC's like him around!

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Negativvv #201 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

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Saying "Aids" is homophobic says more about WG's own staff and their views of the world. It's actually a bit worrying and smacks of ignorance...

 


mtm78 #202 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

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View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Hopefully we can move past this wiser and better prepared to handle anything like this in the future.

 

WG had an excellent reputation in CC handling, applying fair use policy for all it's content and even allowing monetizing content. This was just a PR disaster, and frankly the underlying issue imo should be considered as well. I do not believe Ph3lan would have made the threat unless he was under enormous pressure, and wasn't given clear guidelines. This isn't his fault, but he was the one at the short end of the stick. The problem lies with who handed him that stick. 

 

View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Also, I have to say that the worst thing about the whole think is how players seem to be going after youtubers just because that youtuber did not say exactly what that person wanted them to say.

 

Well iShill defending WG isn't really a surprise, and that has nothing to do with what I expected him to say as he did exactly that :trollface:

 

View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Also, why can't the youtubers be allowed to wait for official statements from WG or take a more calm and diplomatic approach to actually figure out what the hell is going on in this mess?

 

They did, they released their video's AFTER the enormous shitstorm WG themselves caused became abundantly clear. I was actually negative about Jingles for missing some of the things in his earlier video's. 

 

View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Why do people expect them to immediatly make videos blaming WG? 

 

Because WG screwed up epicly? 

 

 


"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


Admiral_noodle #203 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:36 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 23 May 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Saying "Aids" is homophobic says more about WG's own staff and their views of the world. It's actually a bit worrying and smacks of ignorance...

Yes. But of an individual not supported by the management. 

 

I am satisfied with the statement and congratulate WG on putting it out there. With any luck this will be the solution to their own self induced crisis. 


Regional differences in missions and rewards are acceptable to drive player behaviour and numbers. 

Selling unique content on one server (EU) which is free to earn elsewhere is not. 

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loppantorkel #204 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:40 PM

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No one's reflecting over that they're reserving their right to take copyright action against opinions based on not yet publicly released content? I e stuff that cc test and show before release..? Or am I missing something?

Block Quote

Our official position is that Wargaming will not take copyright action against opinions based on our publicly released content.

 

 


Edited by loppantorkel, 23 May 2017 - 04:41 PM.


mtm78 #205 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

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Well that is normal, there is an NDA for content which is not yet flagged as public. And this would fall straight under copyright infringement, releasing content which is still under NDA. 

"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


SBS #206 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:49 PM

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View Postmtm78, on 23 May 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

Because WG screwed up epicly? 

 

 

 

I meant that some people were expecting youtubers to make statements before they had even done a bit of research on it. Also, the youtubers are allowed to have different opinions, allthough everyone that I follow said WG screwed up and made a big mistake. Wether they choose to stay or not with the CC program is ofcourse their choice, especially considering it is part of their livelyhood.

 

With regards to NDA, hasn't WG allways struck down hard on any breach of it?


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havaduck #207 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:51 PM

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View PostAdmiral_noodle, on 23 May 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Yes. But of an individual not supported by the management. 

 

So that can now basically attributed to anyone that isnt that Victor Kissly guy when its convenient for WG to get the head out of the noose because the toilet they themselves clogged in the first place starts spewing in their face?

How ..... convenient.

 

 


Edited by havaduck, 23 May 2017 - 04:52 PM.

RPF - another proof to the reason why you dont give WG the benefit of a doubt, but rather the educational benefit of a kick in the Edited whenever they only think about doing stupid. If you wait to long the BS avalanche has gained to much momentum to pierce their own halo of Dunning-Kruger.

 

This about WG handling of "things":

View PostBigBadVuk, on 03 January 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

[...] yes I agree that it is sending wrong message to other players :"Cheat while you can when you can. We cant stop you , and even if we caught you with pie in your hands we will let you walk away with the pie and smile in the faces of other fair users..." [...]

 


loppantorkel #208 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:54 PM

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View Postmtm78, on 23 May 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Well that is normal, there is an NDA for content which is not yet flagged as public. And this would fall straight under copyright infringement, releasing content which is still under NDA. 

Ships/tanks that haven't been released but have been given to CCs are viewed as publicly released content..? okay, seems good then :)



SBS #209 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:56 PM

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View Postloppantorkel, on 23 May 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Ships/tanks that haven't been released but have been given to CCs are viewed as publicly released content..? okay, seems good then :)

 

Well, even if the ships have been given to the CC's, they may not yet have been given permission to talk about them or show them yet.

Usually they have to wait some time to release their videos.

 

I think there was a small bit of Drama where Jingles said more than he probably should have with regards to the german DD back then.


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mtm78 #210 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:58 PM

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View Postloppantorkel, on 23 May 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Ships/tanks that haven't been released but have been given to CCs are viewed as publicly released content..? okay, seems good then :)

 

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said. 

 

They are considered under NDA until someone from WG let's them know through a written message on the CC discord or previously skype channel, that the content can be released. So if someone releases content prior to that moment, they are breaking NDA and that would warrant a copyright infringement strike. 

 

 


"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


mtm78 #211 Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:00 PM

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View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

I meant that some people were expecting youtubers to make statements before they had even done a bit of research on it. Also, the youtubers are allowed to have different opinions, allthough everyone that I follow said WG screwed up and made a big mistake. Wether they choose to stay or not with the CC program is ofcourse their choice, especially considering it is part of their livelyhood.

 

Personally, on the time I was viewing Jingles his first video, I had already read the NA follow up communique so I was 'dissapointed' Jingles missed it. But then again, I was watching the video hours after he uploaded it, and that doesn't include the time to make and upload the video in the first place. 

 

So you're right, some people ( talking for myself here, but assuming others fell in the same 'trap' ) did appear to be 'hasty' but probably because the video's were running behind the facts in a lot off cases. 


"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


SBS #212 Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:03 PM

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View Postmtm78, on 23 May 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

Personally, on the time I was viewing Jingles his first video, I had already read the NA follow up communique so I was 'dissapointed' Jingles missed it. But then again, I was watching the video hours after he uploaded it, and that doesn't include the time to make and upload the video in the first place. 

 

So you're right, some people ( talking for myself here, but assuming others fell in the same 'trap' ) did appear to be 'hasty' but probably because the video's were running behind the facts in a lot off cases. 

 

Also have to remember that the youtubers first need to find the facts, possibly talk to other youtubers including contact WG, then wait for an answer, then start making the video and then upload and by the time it is available for us, the whole thing has moved on to the next part.

 

So it really is important not to jump the gun and start sharpening the pitchforks immediatly but instead be patient.


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loppantorkel #213 Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:16 PM

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View Postmtm78, on 23 May 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said. 

 

They are considered under NDA until someone from WG let's them know through a written message on the CC discord or previously skype channel, that the content can be released. So if someone releases content prior to that moment, they are breaking NDA and that would warrant a copyright infringement strike.

No, not really. I'm assuming Foch wasn't under NDA when he released his video and that it should be regarded as publicly released content. Otherwise, if the Foch video shouldn't be viewed as publicly released content, they're just iterating their right to take copyright actions against videos like his. There must be a zone between the NDA and when the content is released to the public.



puxflacet #214 Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:39 PM

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he did nothing for which he should be praised. he was just vulgar.

every other youtube reviewer said exactly the same things about chrysler as he did but he was the only one who said that with 50times F*CK. so WG community manager just felt some odd need to address this and went reaaaaaaally overboard. so now foch will be our martyr who will lead us to better days, huh? wake up!



mtm78 #215 Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:40 PM

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View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

 

Also have to remember that the youtubers first need to find the facts, possibly talk to other youtubers including contact WG, then wait for an answer, then start making the video and then upload and by the time it is available for us, the whole thing has moved on to the next part.

 

So it really is important not to jump the gun and start sharpening the pitchforks immediatly but instead be patient.

Foch's video didn't predate the release date for the Chrysler tank.

 

There is no zone in between, it's NDA right up to WG saying in their official communication channels with the CC's that the NDA has been lifted. 

 

View PostSBS, on 23 May 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Also have to remember that the youtubers first need to find the facts, possibly talk to other youtubers including contact WG, then wait for an answer, then start making the video and then upload and by the time it is available for us, the whole thing has moved on to the next part.

 

So it really is important not to jump the gun and start sharpening the pitchforks immediatly but instead be patient.

 

Pitchforks were warranted because the actions spoke quite clearly. You also have to realize that public 'outrage' is also a tool used to keep companies in check. I am quite sure that community reacting the way it did has caused some people in WG HQ to raise their eyebrows, and more then if community had not reacted as strongly.

 

Whatever the point is, threatening with a copyright infringement strike was wrong, and the slanderous comments made later about Foch's person even more so. Thankfully WG has admitted that, and apologized for it. Doesn't make it alright, but it's the most they can do in that aspect. The other thing they should be transparent about is: what allowed this to occur in the first place, and how will we go about changing that. Or well, I for one would very much appreciate that to happen.  


Edited by mtm78, 23 May 2017 - 05:44 PM.

"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


mtm78 #216 Posted Yesterday, 08:28 AM

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https://thedailyboun...re-to-fochgate/

 

I do think this will be the end of what the public will see. Internally I do hope they are looking at making sure this doesn't repeat itself, in any form. 

 

/case closed ( for now )? 


"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


havaduck #217 Posted Yesterday, 10:01 AM

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Again its only backed up by the ask for trust, their credibility and reputation - aka nothing.

 

Esp. when it comes to the last point: I didnt know their names (well, most of them) previously. The only thing to further attribute to them is the previous action of WG as a whole; oh boy thats not exactly a medal.

 

So what else is there to take away from xxxxx leader of yyyy? I want WG to understand when they use all this nice letters to seemingly give weight to their statements by adding both the names and positions:

 

Have some name based Rorschach-test:

 

Schill = Shill - I know its an sch but still  .....

Thain = Some Dwarfen-leader in his mine

Cohen = The "Artist" from Bioshock

Greek-Guy = The name is so greek that I see him as a teacher in a historic marine museums where they are rebuilding an 1:1 version of a persian war era Trireme

Victor Kislyi = So not Kissly - well to be honest something out of eastern folklore, maybe flying around with Baba Yaga in a Mortar.

 

If they let the promise they have now seemingly personally given down, what the utmost personal consequence for them? Are rabid dogs pursuing them in the streets? Any from of fee levered against them? No, its from nothing to take the handshake-cheque and go to another company or into retirement -  damn I could be only "worse" if they were politicians.

 

So basically that group above is coming to ask for trust based on the "reputation of their names" and "the credibility of WG as a whole" - who has done nothing but screwing up constantly for the most part I have been involved with them. Are you kidding me?

 

I can understand when someone like Jingles would be willing to trust the Mental guy, because he has at least talked to him and met him probably more than a few times - thats personal trust (but even that seemingly wasnt enough when put next to WG as a whole :trollface:), but as just a random guy on the street experiencing WG-treatment for years now?

 

 

 

Tbf I realise that I dont matter in the whole thing, as this statement is aimed at placating the masses and will probably succeed in that ... but hey: I am playing the truly free to play part of their game without any p2w involved (spoiler: no planes or ships or tanks are to be found anywhere) :trollface: .... and I ofc will remember this. :trollface:

 


Edited by havaduck, Yesterday, 10:08 AM.

RPF - another proof to the reason why you dont give WG the benefit of a doubt, but rather the educational benefit of a kick in the Edited whenever they only think about doing stupid. If you wait to long the BS avalanche has gained to much momentum to pierce their own halo of Dunning-Kruger.

 

This about WG handling of "things":

View PostBigBadVuk, on 03 January 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

[...] yes I agree that it is sending wrong message to other players :"Cheat while you can when you can. We cant stop you , and even if we caught you with pie in your hands we will let you walk away with the pie and smile in the faces of other fair users..." [...]

 


Aotearas #218 Posted Yesterday, 11:06 PM

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Kastike #219 Posted Today, 05:46 AM

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Lawyer's opinion of this debacle


       




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