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Public Test 0.6.0 - Changes for Test 2


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Lameminator #81 Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:10 PM

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Some pro gamer (I forgot who) on youtube explained that choosing RPF will take away crucial commander points that you could use to improve your survivability or you firepower. But honestly, if I see you in a destroyer and I'm in a CV (which is likely if you meet me :) ), and someone from your team does not chase me off, then I'll spot you anyway. But maybe we should let them implement that perk into the game, and if it's really that op, then they'll do something about it.

Or maybe let it be like a consumable in case it's really that bad.

 

The changes to the evasive maneuver is welcome, because the first concept did not make too much sense. Now it even worth thinking about choosing it.

 

And shouldn't the Internal HE fuse work for Dive bombers too? Even the new skill tree does not appear to have anything that is DB specific :(



krautjaeger #82 Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:13 PM

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I still stand by what I said in the first iteration:

 

View Postkrautjaeger, on 29 December 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

My gripe really boils down to Radio Position Finding, like everyone else is talking about, but also on tier 1. Priority Target or Incoming Fire Alert are those most people will choose from and Priority Target is tbh not a good skill. Preventive Maintenance is also a junk-skill. As said before, move Basics of Survivability back to tier 1 and I'd also suggest Survivability Expert down to tier 1 as the bonus isn't really awesome unless you're a DD and even then not so much. You'd end up with 3 viable skills at level 1 that sets up a variety of choices and helps survivability, especially for casual and new players. To be honest, those are the ones that are the majority of players in this game. Help them survive a bit longer makes them play more.

 

TL;DR: Remove RPF, Priority Target and Preventive Maintenance (the latter is really a non-starter to begin with). Move Basics of Survivability and Survivability Expert to tier 1. Wait with implementing the new skill system and have a poll on what 3 skills to replace the others with. Just a suggestion. As it is now I can only imagine the gigantic shitestorm that will ensue if this goes live... You'll see a lot of 1-post people on the forum for sure wondering what the heck.

 



halfik #83 Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:21 PM

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Who is responsible for game mechanics in wgn? 

Just fire that guy. He has no clue what he is doing. Find out who was working for Cd Projekt Red and hire that guy or someone from Blizzard.

 

You f... up Cvs by adding tons on AA to BBs. By doing this you made AA support cursers usless.

So when there only few CV on server, most of the games there is 0 CV per team. With out CV, there are no planes to spot dds and torps. So yea, you f... up hard here.

 

To fix this you nert all ign dds, but didnt help.

So now you are going to add damn wall hack? Rlly?

 

Seriously, fire that gu

 

Just remove that retarded skill, nerf bbs AA, maybe keep this anti fire skill for bbs and test it.

 

PS. There are plenty of good dd hunters in game. All us dds and all crusers with 8-11km range radar.

DDs arent the problem. Problem is you buffed BBs to much, so most of CVs are gone. With out CVs we have plenty of dds out there.

CVs were balancing amount of BBs and DDs around.


Edited by halfik, 11 January 2017 - 05:23 PM.


MrWastee #84 Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:34 PM

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on the "expensive" point:

i guess this more benefits players with a lot of matches and 15+ captains. (i at least have 10+ of those and several more with more than 15 skillpts....). so, and if only in the start, experienced players are given the tools to sealclub the hell out of midtiers and newbies, right lol?!

besides the fact, that by cutting 5th skill level u make builds faster to reach. so more people can take it in comparison to a hypothetical alternation of a skilltree that kept 5th level.

 

i can't even imagine how many times a rpf user will get accused and reported for cheating ("wallhack") from people with little to no clue about the games' mechanics....

*sigh* RPF HAS TO GO! NOT DEBATEABLE!


Edited by MrWastee, 11 January 2017 - 05:37 PM.


krautjaeger #85 Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:29 PM

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Developers, in the current live build a stock package for almost all casuals and new players are these three early skills: Basics of Survivabilty at level 1, Expert Marksman at level 2 and Superintendent at level 3. One of the most common questions on the forum by casual/new players is "How do I mitigate and deal with fire/flooding?" as it takes a lot of play for many to see how to balance positioning, flags, commander skills and personal skill. By moving Basics of Survivabilty to level 3 you are making new players choose between this and Superintendent which are both integral to survival. You could argue that you can reasonably fast choose two level 3 skills when you have a total of 9 points thus this is no problem, but then new and casual players gimp themselves as they have to wait even longer for tier 4 skills that non-casuals/experienced players have. Your changes are working against casuals and new players.

 

Those of us that have played a long time have fully specced commanders, so we can mitigate these changes quite easily which gives us a sizeable advantage. We'll then have to answer these players who come and ask us that 'just wait, in the end you'll have a fully specced commander just like us and it's all good then'. This is not something good, and casuals usually alternate between games and will more often than not choose a game that has to some extend a level playing field even though seasoned players still have a lead. Earlier you could have a competitive enough build with a 10 skillpoint Commander, f.ex. Basics of Survivabilty, Expert Marksman, Superintendent and Advanced Firing Training. To be fairly competitive on such a build now you need a 13 point commander.

 

As said before, the current Preventive Maintenance at level 1 is really not a useful skill as it won't help that much for anyone. Moving Basics of Survivability back to tier 1 will balance the new skill tree again, and help the majority of the player base. If you look at the poll that was posted earlier, that is what the majority of the players on the forum thinks as well: http://forum.worldof...mmander-skills/

 

While I can understand you can not have every decision up as a popular vote, this in my view is one of those that you really should pay attention as it not only can but will come to bite you in the behind otherwise later on.



Boris_MNE #86 Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:39 PM

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Any of Devs actually care for 666 voters?



dasCKD #87 Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:43 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 11 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

We will have more detailed information on why we we made this decision soon and I am happy to try to address specific concerns and questions about the skill here.

 

I do have a question. Why does War Gaming insist on trying to force mechanics that are universally reviled by the player based and opposed by the entire community? Do the devs genuinely think that this is a good thing to include in the game? Do they want to revamp the game in some major way and refuse to disclose their intention to us? Or do they just genuinely not care what we think?

Edited by dasCKD, 11 January 2017 - 06:50 PM.

"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.

Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."                            Artist page ->http://www.pixiv.net...id=5192176


Z_OnkelE #88 Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

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Earlier this evening I had a round with a quite unfortunate DD player. That guy, let's call him Peter Poorguy, ran into a division of two Belfasts. After being evaporated within his own smoke, Peter couldn't believe what happened. Of course the two Belfasts were clearly hacking and the replay will provide the evidence. Let alone the excessive cursing Peter put out, like there was no tomorrow...

 

After seeing that I think it is not a good idea to make spotting (especially while actually not detected!) even more complicated. Clearly new player, or just player who are not completely familiar with all mechanics, will feel cheated. The RPF system will not work in their favour and in result this skill makes the game more complicated in the eye of a less experienced player.


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Kashuken #89 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:16 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 11 January 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Captains, the following changes were made for the second iteration of the 0.6.0 public test:

 

Ships

  1. Akizuki: armor penetration of 100-mm HE Type8 shell was reduced from 19 mm to 17 mm.
    • This is a purely technical change, as 19 mm was not enough to match 19 mm DD plating. In 0.6.0, players who would like to penetrate 19 mm plating with 100-mm HE shells, should use the Inertial HE Fuse skill.
  2. Battleships: catapult fighter plane flight time was reduced from 300 to 60 seconds.
    • This consumable's initial purpose was a temporary, player-activated protection from air strike or a short recon tool. The huge flight time proved to be unbalanced, that’s why it has to be changed substantially.
  3. Bismarck: Advanced (German) Hydro acoustic search consumable was replaced with standard version.
    • Bismarck proved to be a universal and very powerful ship with excellent armor protection and potent auxiliary guns. Her advanced Hydro search gave too mmany advantages against DDs, often acting as radar. This change shifts the Hydro search purpose on Bismarck to a more defensive role, while her other values remain.

 

Skills

  1. Fire Prevention: the skill was moved to Tier 4 (+1). Fire prevention value was increased from -7% to -10%.
    • The new feature of this skill that was introduced during Public Test 1 (-1 fire point in central part of ship) proved to be very efficient. We decided to make the survivability build more dedicated, so this skill became even more powerful, with increased cost.
  2. Survivability Expert: the skill was moved to Tier 3 (-1). Health points increase was lowered from 400 to 350 per ship tier.
    • This way it got more accessible at the cost of slightly reduced efficiency.
  3. Inertial HE Fuse: Chance of Fire penalty was reduced from -6% to -3%. Penetration bonus was increased from +25% to +30%.
    • The skill proved to be too specific because of the penalty and caused too many “no effect” situations. Now, it does lower Fire Chance noticeably without removing it almost completely.
  4. Evasive Maneuver: concealment bonus was reduced from -40% to -20%. Survivability bonus was increased from +15% to 75%.
    • We decided to shift the focus of this skill to survivability in order to make it more general-purpose and exclude some concealment abuse scenarios.
  5. Adrenaline Rush: efficiency bonus was increased from 0.1% to 0.2% for each percent of HP lost.
    • While the general idea behind the skill worked, we decided to make it more competitive at its tier.

 

 

Ships

 

2. Fine with it, i use it as hydro from the sky

3. Fine

 

Skills

1. Should be limited to 3 fires and the superstructure should not become 1 point.

 

RFP no mention so RU scrubs love it because they are bad and need a wallhack which will kill every other server except RU.



Cpt_Devilfish #90 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:21 PM

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Block Quote

 We will keep looking at all the feedback, but we will not always be able to make decisions based solely on it.

 

If the majority say No to RPF, then why still force it on us? Would love to get  direct explanation from those who make this decision.

Or is it just so much fun to piss off the peoples that make sure you have food on your table every day? it realy feels like it.

This shouldn't even be up for discussion, no such skill or even similar to it should ever exist in the game.

 

I dare you to start your own poll on this.

 

And if for some odd reason you do not listen/care about how we feel about this, then il be the first to post "I told you so" when you realise the player base is dropping.

I give it about 2 months after patch day, then you will see the snowball growing, easy math : less players online = more players dropp out and there you go Congratz...

 

 

 

 



KaraMon #91 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:29 PM

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Now i wonder

 

Was it hard to make Akizuki HE penetration 20 mm? :trollface: so would need Inertia fuze only when i wanted to hit sdome bigger targets than DD ?

 

HE on Akizuki do no damage? lower the penetration! They are brilliant


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mtm78 #92 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:30 PM

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View PostKaraMon, on 11 January 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

Now i wonder

 

Was it hard to make Akizuki HE penetration 20 mm? :trollface: so would need Inertia fuze only when i wanted to hit sdome bigger targets than DD ?

 

HE on Akizuki do no damage? lower the penetration! They are brilliant

 

But they want to give us CHOICES, you know, of being USELESS with your HE or not. Must have skill for Akizuki confirmed, together with RDF ofc and CE... expensive built. 

"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.                                    Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.                                             Then they nerved concealment on every class except BB's, and I didn't speak out because I didn't have common sense

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."        

 


KaraMon #93 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:35 PM

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This is Soviet version of CHOICES :D "Use inertia Fuze on akizuki or you get bullet in the head " type of choice

 

Btw you can't make akizuki work with Inertia fuze and RDF at the same time , you have to drop the AFT and it will still hurt it . Whatever you do there is always something bad with Akizuki :p and damn just bought it and love it and hate it at the same time and i do not like to see what they do to it


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TheCinC #94 Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:17 PM

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TLDR version first: RPF needs to go. period. End of sentence.

 

Everything else in 0.6.0 pales in comparison to the above.

 

RPF will wreak havoc on destroyers and cruisers, all but eliminating stealth and ambush tactics of any kind.

DDs will suffer the most, but a cruiser hiding behind an island will have a bad day as well.

At best, its intended victim will either not continue in that direction or come around the island with guns pointing in his direction, at worst, the enemy will work their way around to a position from which they can spot the cruiser and sink it with a few citadels.

Especially with a CV rework still sorely needed, it will turn WoWs even more into WoBBs.

Even as a history nerd and a battleship nut, I don't want that to happen.

 

RPF is also bad because it will be easily accessible.

I think WG misses the point that many players will have at least one captain with enough skills to get RPF right away.

I have a lot of ships, a captain for each one and divide my time between them.

Some of them are rusting away in port, but many of them are gradually moving towards at least 15 points, a few are there already and a few more are well beyond that.

With the new skill tree, you need 1+2+3+4 = 10 points to get a rank IV skill.

With 14 points, you can get two tier IV skills.

With 19 points, you can even get three, AND have 1 point to spare.

With the new 'elite XP' option, you can train up captains even faster.

The end result is many people at least having the option of 'wasting' 4 points on RPF.

But it will not be a waste, it will be a must-have skill, it is, quite simply put, a built-in wallhack.

 

It will affect all ships differently, but overall, it will be just plain bad, not just for DDs.

For BBs, it will be the difference between knowing an ambush is coming, where a DD or CA is hiding in smoke, or where that pesky DD has gone off to.

It will mean BBs surviving longer, being even more hesitant to take any chances, yet more sniping from the rear.

For DDs and CAs it will aid greatly in hunting down enemy DDs and make playing DDs much more difficult than it already was, but all but eliminating the use of stealth and cover.

Japanese DDs from the 'torpedo' branch will be rendered obsolete overnight, but gun DDs are almost even more vulnerable.

They depend on balancing between danger and safety.

Opening fire will still reveal them, but this time, half the enemy team may be ready to unload on them.

So they can either run and hide and never use their guns, or take the risk of obliteration in an instant.

Combined with hydro and radar, it may mean people will just not bother with DDs.

As someone who spends a lot of time playing DDs, I am not sure they will be worth playing any more, and it seems as if many people feel the same way about this.

It will also be much less a test of skills, at least for BB players.

Just don't go in the direction RPF points.

Games will become even more boring, possibly even more lopsided.

According to the video regarding plans for 2017, they want the game to be more diverse.

Then don't do this, it will have the opposite effect.

 

Edit: it also looks ugly as hell, forgot to mention that.. /EDIT
 

One more reason that RPF may ruin the game, is that I take it that all advice from supertesters on this subject has been ignored.

There is probably a reason that we were asked to consider it, to try out different builds, basically, to give the unpalatable a chance..

We tried it, rejected it, lo and behold, RPF is completely unchanged in a second iteration of 0.6.0.

This is by far the most watched and commented on portion of the current PTS, response has been overwhelmingly negative, various topics have been spawned on the rest of the forum on the exact same subject, all leading to the same conclusion, yet all this feedback is not even responded to and has led to exactly zero change on this point.

Way to listen to your community, WG..

At this point, I am sorry, I gotta ask: are you trying to run this game into the ground?

Surely that can't be the case, but this is incomprehensible to me.

 

I fear WG will just push this through, so I am adding this:

 

I've seen a suggestion taken up by some, that IF WG decides to push through RPF, damage can be mitigated partially by having it work like this:

 

-Turn radio on: enemy can find you by using RPF, you will be able to relay enemy positions and call for help or call out targets.

-Turn radio off: enemy can't find you by using RPF, but you will not be able to relay enemy positions, call for help or call out targets, until you turn it back on.

 

It is not my idea, but I've seen it in several places now and it is the only suggestion I've seen that makes RPF less bad than it is now.

DDs and cruisers will at least still have an option to use stealth and to ambush enemies, no matter how much it cripples the game.

It even makes a little sense from anything but the perspective of game mechanics.

 

To be clear: this is not what I want, I want RPF to be taken out the back, shot, shot again, then buried ten feet deep in an unmarked grave, with a wooden stake through its heart, then nuked from orbit, just to be sure.

But IF RPF makes its way in the game, then it better be adjusted in such a way that it mitigates its impact at least partially.

If WG completely ignores our feedback on this point, then they will not only break the game, but to many it will also be the last straw, the loss of faith in WG will be huuuuge.

We've already seen what happens when we feel ignored by WG EU, we may yet see what happens when we are ignored by WG as a whole.

 

To be clear: I mean this as constructive criticism.

I will state again that I want this game to succeed, badly, especially with the RN BBs almost within my grasp.

But this will not do, this can not stand.

Please stop shooting yourselves in the foot, people.

Please, please, please, with sugar on top, pay attention and listen!

Is PTS just a band-aid, to keep the peace, or is what we say really meaningful and relevant to WG?

If our feedback matters, the conclusion should be clear.

Scrap or at the very, very least nerf RPF into oblivion.


Edited by TheCinC, 12 January 2017 - 07:08 PM.

Current status: counting down the days until HMS Hood is released UNBUNDLED. What the hecking heck is wrong with you WG?

Still firmly against RPF/Radio Location, because it does nothing to make the game better.

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Mavadelo #95 Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:29 PM

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ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING ME

 

So.. your idea of improving this crap is by giving the Aki and EXTRA nerf combined with the massive amount of nerfs you already gave the DD's

you switched 2 useless skills that most people won't take anyway

leave this FRIGGING RPF in there without any change

 

I tried this 2nd test round so I don't get the "you have no right since you didn't even try it" like celeb ichase talked to his audience the first time

I tried it first without this ffing RPF, whereever I went the enemy DD's where all over me, massive blindfires into my direction, battleships and cruisers alaways angled to me where ever I went, no more flanking, no more stealth attacks, no more sneaky getting a cap that was left alone halfway battle NO MORE FRIGGING STEALTH

 

There is no option for a DD at 4, I HAVE to take that ffing RPF to counter, I HAVE NO FFING CHOICE

 

thanks WG for destroying destroyer play and for NOT FFING LISTENING TO YOUR PLAYERS

 

BLEEP U

 

rant over


"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.

Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

(adaptation of famous quote, adaptation by dasCKD)


shulzidar #96 Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:29 PM

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Well... This was the last nail on the coffin for Torpedo gameplay. The key concept is that they are trying to justify RPF pressence with the "nerf" on Scouting planes (DCCA gave 75% coverage on torpedo attacks) and moving Fire Prevention to T4 which, certainly, backups the idea they are raising all the time to justify the skill... Costs 4 points.

 

So in a kind of twisted logic... Hey! We want torpedo boats ingame! Don't leave us just yet!... We even went as far as to remove the Instant_torpedo_dodge skill DCCA for 1 point and we made BBs harder to get RPF!!! We care!!! We listen!!!...

 

...They apparently haven't really played a Gunboat with this skill.. IT'S SO INCREDIBLY REWARDING!!!... Go full speed, follow the marker, kill enemy DD.

 

Apparently, the definition of "team gameplay", is just following the Gunboats on your team like a conga line blowing any torpedo boat/Stealth Cruiser that gets detected, trying to flank...

 

...Hooray! for the vision of a Game of Lemmings.

 

Meanwhile, from the eyes of a Torpedo Boat Commander, is such an easy recipe that you could program the Coop Bots to mimick players:

 

1) Check opponent list, Is there any DD that's not IJN?

 

*Yes: Go afk.

*No: Proceed to point 2).

 

2) Get close to cap points... RPF warning kicking in?

 

*No: Good luck... You are in one of those games, according to WG, that should be preatty common... The one without ANY1 bringing the skill in (Be sure you get replays on... Or ppl will not believe you when you tell them). Play as you would normally... Enemy will be easy picks after months and months of not having to even think on ambushes.

*Yes: Proceed to 3)

 

3) Nearby Visible Ships track you flawlessly?

*Yes: Congrats... Ask your team to kill them and wait until happens to resume your normal operation. Warning... Due to "teamplay skills" so common on Random Battles, battle time can reach 0 before you can start playing (Be sure to toss randomly some torpedos so AFK penalty don't kick in). If there is still battle time remaining after RPF warning dissapears, proceed to 2).

*No: You encountered one of those IJN DD captains that wasted 4 points in this skill... Proceed to the center of the Cap point to meet him, torp and gun him as you would normally... DO NOT try to cap nor use smoke... Kill or be killed... If you survive, proceed to 2).

 

 

So translation from WG "jargon":

 

Quote

to improve the role

...means "to make it boring, straightforward and needing the same skill level of coop bots".

 

Quote

to all cruisers

...means "To the 2 cruisers that will keep appearing per battle that either a) will be useless because there isn't torpboats to hunt or b) will be erased by the enemy team so their DDs can cap".

 

Quote

but definitely not a must.

...means "but definitively will not be needed once torpedo boats become rare sightings as white whales".


Edited by shulzidar, 11 January 2017 - 08:42 PM.


Smeggo #97 Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:41 PM

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The more I test these skills on the PTS, the more I like them. Especially the one that tells you how many are aiming at you.

 

The CV-skills seemed rather useless. :bajan:

 

Tested the HEAP 5x on the Akizuki. Did better with AP, so not a choice for me. We'll see if it's usefull on the Atlanta.

 

I'm ok with RDF. Takes too much points to use it - and i found no greater use of it in every ship. For most builts I needed the points for something else more.


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KaraMon #98 Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:01 PM

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Tried some DD on PTS with and without RPF  and all that matters that this skill is must have on any DD

 

1. Without it you are blind and you will be outplayed even by less skilled DD player that have this skill , information that you are "spoted by rpf" is garbage

2. With it you can massacre/avoid any DD that does not have this skill

3. RPF is not "expensive skill that not everyone will take because you will have to sacrifice something else" , no it is not . RPF is on same level as Concealment Expert , you put it on everything everywhere everytime otherwise you will be outplayed by players using it


Edited by KaraMon, 11 January 2017 - 09:02 PM.

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siggy_stru1313 #99 Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:19 PM

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Pleeeease, give us a premium ships, and American premium ships

Mavadelo #100 Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:28 PM

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Hunting

Spoiler

 

Hunting according to WG

Spoiler

Edited by Mavadelo, 11 January 2017 - 09:39 PM.

"First they nerfed the carriers and I didn't speak out because I didn't play carriers.

Then they nerfed the torpedoes and I didn't speak out because I didn't play IJN DDs.

Then they nerfed cruiser HE and I didn't speak out because I didn't spam HE.

Then the BBabies came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

(adaptation of famous quote, adaptation by dasCKD)





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