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Team, please don't go opposite sides of the map, play your role, and other tips

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TheCinC #1 Posted 28 August 2016 - 09:59 PM

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I've tried to translate my own personal experience into advice that other players may benefit from.

I am by no means a great player, although I think I am still improving, but I would like to help promote more team work and help people to understand the dynamics of the game and how the four classes of ships work.

World of Warships is, first and foremost, a team based game, from Coop and Random to Team and Ranked battles.

If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine, but as rules of thumb, these probably goes a long way, although in certain conditions, most or all of these rules probably become fluid.

If you feel you know better, don't just say so, explain why.

Do feel free to add your own tips, and like suggestions from other players, both to encourage more people to post their advice, and to make it easier for me to spot them and add them to this post, so we may all do better together! :izmena:

I would especially like someone to do a guide to carriers for people who suck at carriers (like yours truly, as I freely admit).

 

 

The importance of team work

 

Lately it seems as if, for some reason, everyone is not only insistent on doing their own thing, but also on doing that thing as far away from support as possible.

This is not helpful.

Even if you are still in range of the rest of the team, even battleships can't do consistent damage at long range.

More often than not, half our team gets creamed, leaving the rest to struggle to try and make up for it.

 

Another recurring theme is that people often don't play their role, despite the obvious advantages for the team, themselves included.

One important thing to remember is that this game is trying to be rock-paper-scissors, every ship type has its strengths and weaknesses, try to play according to your strengths and account for your own weaknesses.

Whichever class you play, you can perform some roles that another class won't be able to perform, or only at a cost/with severe drawbacks.

If you don't play the role your class is meant to perform, someone else will have to try that, and will most likely struggle to do so.

See below for an outline of what each class is meant to do, according to the way the game is set up, and what is smart to do, in order to help your team.

 

Destroyers/DDs

 

Destroyers hunt everything, but should cap and scout for the fleet as well. On maps with multiple cap zones, capping takes priority, but make sure you have support, and air cover if need be. Gun destroyers should focus on taking out enemy destroyers first, but beware of enemy ships that have radar. After that, the priority is carriers (but don't abandon your team and go off on a wild goose chase). Gun destroyers are more easily spotted, but that does not mean they should ignore capping, just that they should be smart about it, and keep an eye on support at all times. Torpedo destroyers should usually only fire their guns as a last resort, or together with an ally, and then often only against enemy DDs. They should probably focus on capping first, but always within range of cruiser / gun destroyers for support.Their priority is: carriers (when nearby), battleships, cruisers, but also destroyers if near/threatened. For both types it should be obvious that you do not go off on your own, well beyond help from your team, unless there are no enemy DDs and no enemy CVs, or you absolutely have to in order to cap/reposition.

 

Pro-tips: don't smoke up immediately upon spotting something and being spotted, if you're the one spotting, no one will be able to shoot at the newly discovered target. Especially enemy DDs are hard to spot, so YOU need to do that! Make sure we get some shots in first, using WASD hacks to avoid enemy fire, THEN smoke. If we can take out the enemy DDs early, you will have free play, wouldn't you like that? Sure you would! And don't sit still in the smoke right where you were spotted, the enemy will either shoot or torpedo your position, and either sink you or damage you so much you will be mostly useless for the rest of the game. If challenged, retreat, unless you have a clear advantage, and/or you are in the final stages of the game. If you make one little mistake, your team is down a DD. Once your team loses their DDs, they are handicapped, more than they realize.

 

Important information for non-destroyer players: destroyers are NOT invisibre, they do not magically appear and disappear. They are also INCREDIBLY vulnerable, they have paper thin armor (so don't use AP against them, it will overpenetrate and do negligible damage) so protect those on your team, and prioritize those on the enemy team. They are incredibly useful. DDs on your team: good. DDs on their team: bad. Take out enemy destroyers swiftly, it may be your only chance, and it may save you or an ally. A few hits is all it takes.

 

 

Cruisers / CAs

 

Cruisers, especially light cruisers, should prioritize enemy destroyers over everything else, carriers over everything but destroyers, cruisers over battleships, and battleships absolutely dead last. For heavy cruisers this still goes, as your rate of fire is still better than a BB and a destroyer has to reveal its position to shoot.

 

Pro-tips: don't EVER broadside a battleship while spotted AND at least keep turning if you can't avoid it, no matter what the range is. Yama has over 25 km range, and even in lesser battleships I've citadelled cruisers from (almost) max range and just plain deleted them, sometimes with my very first salvo of the game, the moment they were spotted. One citadel is half your HP, 2 is death. That is all it takes, so don't risk it, ever. Work with the other cruisers and focus fire a target, it will die swiftly, but stick to the target priority listed above. If you die getting a BB within an inch of its life, it is most likely useless. The BB will repair and be at half or full HP the next time it is spotted. The no broadsiding rule goes for enemy cruisers and destroyers too. They will delete you almost as easily, especially if you're in torpedo range. Using only half your guns is fine, as you also risk only half the damage you would sustain otherwise. Try to focus fire, together with your allies. When unspotted, get into the best possible position (preferably non broadsiding or ready to turn) and THEN fire.

 

Important information for non-cruiser players: cruisers are almost as vulnerable as destroyers, they have a bit more HP, but are also MUCH more visible, while with exception of Kutuzov they have no smoke to hide in. Their rate of fire, especially for light cruisers, is often phenomenal. They can start fires like they are blasting The Prodigy 24/7. Some of them, especially at higher tiers, have radar, which is a deadly tool, while others have sonar. Protect them and they will protect you, if they do their job right.

 

 

Battleships/BBs

 

Battleships should target carriers, cruisers, battleships, in that order, but at least target their secondaries on any incoming DD. The occasional potshot with the main guns on a DD should not be neglected, especially if that DD is moving in a straight line and under 15 km away, and/or threatening an ally. Just don't forget to lead even more than for a cruiser. Better safe than sorry.

 

Pro tips: turn your bow towards a threat, especially a destroyer/torpedoes/torpedo bombers, and try to avoid showing your broadside to anyone. Plan ahead, because you are slow to move, slow to turn, and if you get caught turning, they will target you and hit you where it hurts the most (the citadel). You may feel invulnerable and can heal mad amounts of HP, but if you get hit enough, you won't have time for that. Don't EVER go off alone, especially not with DDs/CVs about. Don't stay at max range, you may occasionally hit something, even citadel stuff, but you will do far less damage than at closer range. Try to find the sweet spot. Near enough to the enemy, near enough to your allies, but not close enough to be in immediate danger. Try to fire at the proper distance ahead, so you can citadel a BB or CA. Try to focus fire, together with your allies. Fire AP, even against destroyers. Target nearby enemies with secondaries, and pay attention to enemy squadrons, select those as well, especially if you have the Manual Fire Control (MFT) skill.

 

Important information for non-battleship players: while they may seem invulnerable, and many of them feel that they are, they are most certainly not, not even Yama-san. Scout to detect DDs well ahead of time, so BBs can keep clear, and keep an eye out for TBs for the same reason, and don't let them wander off alone, or they will be pwned. When you engage them, finish them if you can do so at a reasonable expense, or all will be for naught. But don't get tunnel vision and lose track of everything else and certainly don't target them alone, unless you must, or if they are showing you their delicious broadside. Battleships are relatively slow, so don't keep them guessing on where they should be. If they have to move halfway across the map to be useful, they are useless for the time being, and the game can be lost before they are in a position to do something. despite their enormous hitting power/damage potential. Scout for them and point out juicy targets to attract their attention, so they can adjust in a timely fashion.

 

 

Carriers/CVs

 

Carriers hunt everything and can cover the whole map. They should use that ability to scout, even ahead of friendly DDs, so they don't get ambushed, and so that the team gets an early picture of where the enemy is and can adjust accordingly. Aircraft spotting a DD, but out of ammo? Who cares! Keep it there, wait for the team to take it out, or the DD to use smoke, unless it is so far away no one can shoot it. Don't pull it out the second the enemy DD is spotted! The DD won't return the favor, it will gladly torpedo you from beyond visual range, or start so many fires on your deck that your pilots plunge into the ocean in despair.

 

Pro-tips: stick at least somewhat near your team and don't stay on an unprotected flank. Preferably, keep moving, especially if you were already spotted. The enemy WILL remember and will be coming for you ASAP. Also, keep an eye out for an enemy sneak attack, from carrier planes or otherwise. Don't EVER be AFK. A team without their CV is pretty much doomed.

 

Important information for non-carrier players: Playing a CV is DIFFICULT. To play it right is even more difficult. So don't complain that they do it wrong, they are probably doing their best. One cruiser offering them AA support at the start, to guard against sneak attacks, can seem like an thankless job, but it may help your team a lot.

 

All classes:

 

-Work together. Pay attention to team chat and decide on a strategy together. Even if you heartily disagree, stick with the team, help them do their thing. A lemming train is often still better (concentration of force) than going off on your own, getting jumped, and sinking without accomplishing anything.

-Never, EVER, torpedo from behind. No exceptions.

-Don't ignore the caps, or even the very last enemy may still survive and allow the enemy to win by caps.

-Don't leave it up to someone else to do the obvious thing, that you could do yourself (cap/take out that DD). They won't and your team will suffer for it.

-If you go to A or C, don't go to the other side of the map, stay between B and A/C if you can. That way you will be nearer B and able to support your team elsewhere, or able to re-position more easily.

-Don't shoot the forts in bastion mode if they are white (neutral) and we have a chance to cap them.

-Keep your eye on the map and don't run into an island or the map border, it usually is instant death, or will result you being out of position.

-Wait for the target to be focused, then fire, or you'll be off by a mile.

-Don't accuse others of cheating even if they shoot way better than you.

-Check your torpedo range and torp accordingly, don't waste your torps on a target that they are never going to hit.

-Don't fire/torp at max range, unless you have no other targets and won't have them for at least 30 seconds.

-Support your DDs and carriers first, but don't let battleships and cruisers run into enemy torps because you didn't scout.

-Prioritize weak enemies first. A weak enemy is still a threat, a sunk enemy won't hurt anyone (except with ordnance, or a fire/flooding, already underway). Priority is still the same as stated for your class, unless the enemy is one shot away from being sunk. Kill stealing does not exist. If the enemy uses (HP) repair at the last second, he may go on and sink half your team, especially a DD or CV.

-When in trouble, turn your bow towards the nearest enemies, scream for help, and hope for the best.

-Help a friendly if you can. Take some of the pressure of him, target the ship that is its biggest threat, help your ally to survive, and he may be able to help you (or the team) out at a later stage. A sunk ally is a useless ally.

-Stay out of the channel on Two Brothers, especially early on. You will be spotted and a cruiser, DD or TB squadron will take you out as soon as you exit the channel on the other side, or even earlier. if you know the position of the entire enemy team and they are nowhere near, plus the enemy capped the base on the other side and we need the points, then, maybe then, use the channel as a shortcut.

 

TLDR summary: please work together, as a team. This is not a free for all. Support your team, and play your role. Cap if you can, but don't take needless risk. If you don't cap, support those who do, and those who scout. Don't get tunnel vision, keep checking around you and the overall situation.

 

Edited in order to be eligible to be stickied, plus a few minor changes. I will add some of the many helpful suggestions below ASAP.


Edited by TheCinC, 29 August 2016 - 08:06 PM.

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The_Tyke #2 Posted 28 August 2016 - 10:05 PM

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Good effort, easy to follow, very informative for the newb like myself.

 

Have a +1


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Lin3 #3 Posted 28 August 2016 - 10:16 PM

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If you're in a cruiser, sailing towards the enemy when you get spotted, what do you do?

If you keep sailing forwards you will get too close and you will get deleted even if you're bow on.

If you go into reverse you will be a slow, easy to hit target and the enemy can go faster forwards than you can backwards.

If you turn you will show your broadside.

 

Best solution is to try to arrange it so that there's an island (or smoke screen) behind which you can turn. But that's not always possible, as it depends on the situation.



Geralt_z_Rivii365 #4 Posted 29 August 2016 - 02:48 AM

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View PostTheCinC, on 28 August 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

when someone, let alone half the team is begging you, yelling at you, screaming at you, to do something

 

I rarely see the chat in use. In many cases it's just a salt mine when one player starts to attack others in chat for their bad positioning or decisions and another one or two replies and in the end they just call each other [pick the word you want] and that's it. Ofc there are sometimes battles where people do stuff like give some advice or say hi but I it's just so rare for a slow paced game wows is. Even in wot where battles are much quicker I remember people using chat more often than here in wows.


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xXx_Blogis_xXx #5 Posted 29 August 2016 - 04:27 AM

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nice work man :) cheers

 

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piet11111 #6 Posted 29 August 2016 - 04:58 AM

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That little box in the lower right corner its called a mini-map its full of important information but is easily overlooked so please press + a couple of times to make it bigger so peripheral vision will provide you with a bit more info and hopefully draw your attention maybe when things go terribly wrong.

 

Use the + button.



Talvathir #7 Posted 29 August 2016 - 07:28 AM

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Hear hear!

SomeoneYouKnow2 #8 Posted 29 August 2016 - 08:07 AM

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The problem is that the potatoes in the game are also the same people who never read the forums or guides so efforts like these are futile :(

ColonelPete #9 Posted 29 August 2016 - 09:58 AM

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That is mostly true, but there are people on the forum that still think splitting up your firepower is a good idea.

Ferry_25 #10 Posted 29 August 2016 - 10:24 AM

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Wonderfully writen OP! IMO this should be made sticky. Of course it's still a game and I want to play for fun. Having said that: the most fun I have if when I'm fighting an awesome battle. Don't even mind to lose that way either. The more the concept of "working as a team, playing your role" is hammered down, the better. Even if we get 1 potatoe boiled, it is progress!

 

@ Lin3: the main trap of cruisers is they can be deceivingly fast. Especially the Russians. I'm NOT promoting camping but tanking: stay on the 2nd line in the opening phase @ 1/4 to 3/4 "impulse." That way you can rush in and help your DD (it is extremely statisfying to delete the Atlante harrassing your DD with a Chapayev) or fall back when things are getting too hot: the DD has a better chance of escaping that than you have (turn = euthanasia) so the fat ladies can catch up and enrich the other side with metal gifts. My point: check your speed! I know from very much experience. And still I find myself overstreched because I rushed in too hard.



Ferry_25 #11 Posted 29 August 2016 - 10:27 AM

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View PostColonelPete, on 29 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

That is mostly true, but there are people on the forum that still think splitting up your firepower is a good idea.

 

Well it can work. So can the lemmingtrain. Split up happend on 2 brothers often. So does the LT. The trick IMO is communication. Which doesn't happen. In the split formation 1 side should push hard and the other fall back so you can make a wrench crush (that's the idea). The LT should keep pushing hard, but they always come to a stop, being deleted 1 by 1.

Lance_Horne #12 Posted 29 August 2016 - 10:55 AM

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I agree with OP.:)

Verence196 #13 Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:23 AM

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Good post, OP. =)

ColonelPete #14 Posted 29 August 2016 - 12:03 PM

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View PostFerry_25, on 29 August 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

 

Well it can work. So can the lemmingtrain. Split up happend on 2 brothers often. So does the LT. The trick IMO is communication. Which doesn't happen. In the split formation 1 side should push hard and the other fall back so you can make a wrench crush (that's the idea). The LT should keep pushing hard, but they always come to a stop, being deleted 1 by 1.

 

No denying that. As you said, lack of communication makes the split more difficult. And a well executed split will always lose to an equaly well educated focus of firepower. It is simple math.

Vulpes79 #15 Posted 29 August 2016 - 02:20 PM

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The most useful and interesting "rant" I ever read on this forums;

A good tip when facing BB's, especially if you're a cruiser that got too close for comfort and showing your broadside is deserving a good paddlin', is to lower speed, zoom in on the BB and check when it fires...endure or zig zag the shots then full speed ahead and hard turn, tuck tail and run.



Darky_007 #16 Posted 29 August 2016 - 05:39 PM

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View PostTheCinC, on 28 August 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

TLDR summary: when someone, let alone half the team is begging you, yelling at you, screaming at you, to do something, or to NOT do something, please pay attention, they might be onto something. Work together, as a team. This is not a free for all. Support your team and play your role. Cap if you can, but don't take needles risk. Don't get tunnel vision.

 

superb post, but you forget one thing
Don't runaway from enemy when you spot them
I got in 3/10 games, sailing in group then we spot CA, BB, CA, in next 30 sec from squadron of 3 BB, 3 CA, 2 BB and all CA, turn 180 deg, and run in full speed, left me alone don't even shot on enemy...

that is pathetic... :sceptic:


Edited by Darky_007, 29 August 2016 - 05:41 PM.


TheCinC #17 Posted 29 August 2016 - 06:04 PM

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Thanks a lot guys! :honoring:


Wow, I honestly had not been expecting so much positive feedback, I had literally just posted this, and was still editing some typos and clarifications, when I already received my first like.. :ohmy:

I went to sleep feeling much better than I had felt after the grueling battles I'd been through.

 

I was braced for a lot of people disagreeing with my view on things, or pointing out that in situation x, y might just work, which is why I tried to make it clear these are just rules of thumb.

I was also afraid to come across as a know-it-all who tries to push his priorities on other people, despite my not very impressive stats (when in combat, I sometimes get severe tunnel vision, missing the DD right next to me, while my aim could be a lot better as well, but I am trying to improve myself on these points).

I would have also expected people to just reply TLDR, so I already created a TLDR summary.. :D

 

I, personally, above all else, want to win.

I really don't care how many ships I sink, if someone 'steals my kills' I just move to the next target, might even be happy for it, because if it is good for the team, it is good for me as well.
What I do care about, is winning.

If we have to cap at the very last moment and win that way, fine.

If we sink all the enemy ships, also fine.

But if we lose because half the team got tunnel vision, we got back from that and almost won, because some of my team members put in the performance of a lifetime, then I get mad/sad.

I've had several games yesterday where I was working on my aim and noticed I did better than my average, but where I just was not able to get people to work with me, or only a few at the time, or where other players put in a great performance, but where we just weren't able to make up the lost ground.

After a day like that, I just needed to vent after several hard fought games, which we narrowly lost, despite in most cases a large number of ships going down due to poor cooperation and not much else.

I could have just done a rant, but tried to turn this into something productive and I am very glad that I did.

If literally just anyone found this useful, mission accomplished, so I am all the more happy to see these replies!

 

I'll ask the mods if they can sticky this, and if they do, I'll be happy to take suggestions from other players and edit the first post to include them here. :great:

 

I also feel completely unqualified to say much about carriers, as the last time I tried to work on my CV skills, I got yelled at by just about everyone, even when I felt I was doing pretty well. *shudders*

I then played a few games in coop mode, but that was not really able to hold my interest long enough to learn much from it, and the interface will be changed anyway, so I gave up for now.

So if one of our most excellent CV players could do something like this, then that would be great! :honoring:

Thank you all again, and please keep your suggestions coming! :izmena:


Current status: counting down the days until HMS Hood is released UNBUNDLED. What the hecking heck is wrong with you WG?

Still firmly against RPF/Radio Location, because it does nothing to make the game better.

Help make WoWs great again! Add your own suggestions for the game, or read and vote on the best ideas from the community, here, so we can share them with WG.

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Ph3lan #18 Posted 29 August 2016 - 06:40 PM

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Great post! If you reword the intro and title a little bit it would make a really good pinned post for the guide section. 

I can only add that in my experience it really helps if at the beginning of the battle you suggest some points to focus on. Simply asking "A and B?" is usually already enough. It doesn't always work, but especially if you are higher tier, people tend to listen and it results in a bit more coordination which can make all the difference. However I've also noticed that some people can come of as quite passive-aggressive when doing this, which usually results in just the opposite of what they want to achieve.

Bad  example:

"Why are all the BBs going to D? Have you even played this game before?"

Good example:

"Guys! A lot of DDs will be waiting for our BBs at D. Let's take A and B instead!"

 



TheCinC #19 Posted 29 August 2016 - 07:20 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 29 August 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

"Guys! A lot of DDs will be waiting for our BBs at D. Let's take A and B instead!"

 

 

"I've tried that, don't you think I've tried that?" - the IT guy from Wargames.. :(

That is what made me post this, no matter how I point out that going channel is suicide, or that splitting up forces is bad, or that the enemy is at A in force, people don't get the message somehow..

Maybe they collectively blocked me.. :ohmy:

 

But thanks for the compliment, as said, I am a bit overwhelmed by the positive responses! :)

 

I've reworded the intro, I hope it is okay like this?

But would it be possible to sticky this topic here?

Would that be possible? *puppy eyes* :D


If this isn't gameplay, then I don't know what is!
Obviously, this is also the most used subforum, so the most people will see it and comment on it, profit from it.

I will also be happy to include a link to the game guides subforums and to add links to various other useful topics, so this post may serve as a kind of sign post.

 

BTW, I can't edit the topic title, if you can and want to change it to something better suited, be my guest, although it certainly seems to work to get people to read this! :D


Edited by TheCinC, 29 August 2016 - 08:27 PM.

Current status: counting down the days until HMS Hood is released UNBUNDLED. What the hecking heck is wrong with you WG?

Still firmly against RPF/Radio Location, because it does nothing to make the game better.

Help make WoWs great again! Add your own suggestions for the game, or read and vote on the best ideas from the community, here, so we can share them with WG.

Want to know how you can help your team to achieve victory? Or do you think you already know how to help your team to achieve victory? Click here for tips & tricks, or to add your own!


Pansenmann #20 Posted 29 August 2016 - 07:26 PM

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Most of the time,

when I go somewhere with my Wyoming (finally researched New York this weekend! yay!)

sooner or later everyone runs away and I get killed by 3+ enemies. :(


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