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0.5.1.0 AP Damage Model Clarification

0.5.1

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Woland_ #81 Posted 12 November 2015 - 08:50 AM

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It's the same story as with World of Warplanes only at the begining the player base was bigger here so it will take more time to get to less than 2k players in prime time. 

Foxhound128 #82 Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:19 AM

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The longer lasts WG's inaction, the more upset the playerbase will be. The damage is already done. Now games are dominated by cruisers, but after WG fixes it (if they MANAGE to fix it) everyone will be playing battleships to check the changes. So even if they fix the AP issue, it will take additional weeks for the balance to stabilize.

 

WG released a half-product. Should've been in closed beta for another six months.
 


Między 28 września 2016 a 10 grudnia 2016 ani razu nie odwiedziłem forum. Okazuje się, że nadal jestem członkiem kiegoś klanu. WoWsowy ekwiwalent pobierania diety radnego gminy, a ni razu nie przyjść na zebranie.

BTW WoWs ostanio grałem w lutym 2016.

Od czasu do czasu coś tam postuję.

 


Beaker71 #83 Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:38 AM

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http://worldofwarshi...tch-alert-0511/

 

Asking for compensation is a bit much in my opinion. WOT had an issue a few months ago where a lot of players were locked out for being accused of being bots, and they did give premium time to those effected (like me). Yes I've found it a bit annoying not being able to do much damage in my BBs, but I took it as an opportunity to play some more DD games. They have responded pretty quickly

 

Assuming the patch works! No mention of the smoke stacks which I've found a pain, but hopefully that's fixed in the next proper release



mmmbeer #84 Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:58 AM

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Less citadellhits means HE will become more OP now than before... A nerf to HE is in order then.

Alzy #85 Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:58 AM

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Hi, i am  now  even  more  annoyed !   after opening  a  ticket  about  theses  issue  as  well  as  crashes  i  have  been  getting  on  entry  and  exit  of  games , i  was  told  by  support  it  was  my  computer  at  fault  and  i  was  the  only  one  complaining !!   I  can  accept  you have  a  issue BUT  PLEASE  DONT  LIE TO  ME !!!  i am a  paying  customer  DONT  TELL ME  LIES !!!!

Johnny_Phate #86 Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:02 PM

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OMG we are getting saved!!! Patch tomorrow! Most important fix ever:

 

Spoiler

 

 



Flash_overlord #87 Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:32 PM

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View PostJohnny_Phate, on 12 November 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

interesting, so the underwater Penetrations were broken too in adition of everything, didn't even knew that! :rolleyes:


 

will this be enough to make BB viable ? maybe. if they don't fine tune the Penetration mechanics tough, this mean we might have to learn from now on to aim ONLY at the waterline for underwater pens as BB player to not get auto bounce... we shall see how that works.


Edited by Flash_overlord, 12 November 2015 - 12:32 PM.


Woland_ #88 Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:35 PM

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From the patch note (underlining mine):

"bringing some significant (positive) changes to the armour piercing mechanics and shell damage models in the game"

They did read the forum? Or at least this topic. How far you have to get from reality to call those changes positive?
 

Tyrendian89 #89 Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:56 PM

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yeah well this patch doesn't sound like it fixes anything significant... AP overpens/bounces still there (the percentage of shells going underwater->citadel must be minuscule... I can't even remember seeing any shells that hit the water before the ship do anything at all), MOAR CAPS is making things worse instead of fixing them, and we more or less knew the things with superintendent and the accuracy module were just display bugs.

I mean there's always the possibility of WG being stupid enough to stealth-fix the real issue with their penetration model and just not putting that in the patch notes, but that would require an epic level of idiocy...


Tora Tora Tora


sinky1975 #90 Posted 12 November 2015 - 01:10 PM

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ok, thx wg for explenation. My opinion that this patch is mistake. They should return penetrating mechanichs on the previus version and then tested new mehanihcs. What will happen now? we will play and pay for the game and test their new mehachs. Put some complaints which they will fixed and this will go in the circle. Yes WG can play like that and with this they tested players pationts



moraruro #91 Posted 12 November 2015 - 01:45 PM

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Maybe you people will do some testing before launching patches.

 

The fix comes after the scheduled event, so at least the first day of the event will run on the 0.5.1 - aka "some little tears in the hull" :)

 

As usual, you are framing your explanations in the manner of what great additions you have brought and you try to minimize the big mess you did.

 

Would like to send you a basket of bananas as a token of appreciation for your good work :)



Tuccy #92 Posted 12 November 2015 - 01:45 PM

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Captains,

 

As mentioned in the opening post, there was another AP vs. Citadel issue hiding under the floorboards. Luckily, our Developers were able to find it and drag it into the light - and it will be fixed in 0.5.1.1 (to be released on 13/11/2015).

 

What actually happened is that along with internal ricochet fix (see the opening post previous note to learn more) a new bug appeared. As a result, underwater shell ballistics was completely broken in 0.5.1. Let’s see how it worked before and actually should work after the patch:

  • AP shell hits the water near the ship;
  • It arms immediately;
  • Underwater it slows down and starts to “dive” towards the ship;
  • If it’s penetration power is good enough, it goes into the hull and detonates inside.

 

This scenario was quite common and it had particularly strong impact on battleships gameplay. It helped them greatly in damaging such modestly armoured targets as cruisers and not to worry about over-penetration. 

 

As we learned after two days of testing, the absence of this scenario in 0.5.1 was the main reason behind your negative experience with the update. We expect the fixed damage model to be almost identical to what you are used to.

 

We would like to thank you for your patience - now let's get out on the seven seas and let's sink some ships!

 

:izmena:

 

 

 

 

 


 

 


t0ffik1 #93 Posted 12 November 2015 - 01:47 PM

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So no AP fix and no some other guns fix too and no returning to old system and balancing/fixing the compleatly not working new system on test server to implement it later!... wow smart way to keep players playing the game at all.

 

Also no fix for the 30-60% bounce off rates from BB guns on cruisers and many many many many many many many many more

 

Not even gonna bother to log into the game - guess its time to return to LOL, Lov, and pillars of eternity.


Edited by t0ffik1, 12 November 2015 - 01:55 PM.

Why is RNG in bounce off mechanics - its ILLOGICAL as penetration is math based in real life (and in other games). Shell will always pen (or not pen) a plate on X angle, while having Y speed and Z weight while the plate remains the same, as long as all the values remain constant!!.

DELETE THE RNG from bounce mechanics and remake fire mechanics to be more realistic - then this game could go Esport and would stop bleeding players WG!!.

 

And from the day of 7.06.2016 NO MONEY FOR WG for treating their communities!.


moraruro #94 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:08 PM

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Block Quote

 As we learned after two days of testing, the absence of this scenario in 0.5.1

 

Sooo.... you launched 0.5.1 and after that you did the testing? :amazed:

Admiral_noodle #95 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:10 PM

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Let's see shall we. Given the way to get citadels on cruisers close up was to aim AT the waterline, given dispersion a good percentage must have been underwater pens we just didn't know it. Logically half the shots at the waterline would be underneath. So if that was totally FUBAR that would go a long way to explain the *specific* BBs can pen cruisers problem. We shall see.

 

" We expect the fixed damage model to be almost identical to what you are used to."

 

a bold claim. Hope it's correct :)


Regional differences in missions and rewards are acceptable to drive player behaviour and numbers. 

Selling unique content on one server (EU) which is free to earn elsewhere is not. 

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Tuccy #96 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:13 PM

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View Postmoraruro, on 12 November 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

Sooo.... you launched 0.5.1 and after that you did the testing? :amazed:

 

We did the testing for specific issue after the issue was reported, as it is hard to fix something if you do not identify the cause ;)

 

The internal bounce issue was found quickly, this took a bit longer.

 

Admiral_noodle, yep, that seems to be the main issue with the Citadel problem. Cruisers vs. cruisers do not notice as their pen is not enough usually... But BB vs. Cruiser is where it is visible.


Edited by Tuccy, 12 November 2015 - 02:15 PM.

 

 


Tyrendian89 #97 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:13 PM

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View PostTuccy, on 12 November 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Captains,

 

As mentioned in the opening post, there was another AP vs. Citadel issue hiding under the floorboards. Luckily, our Developers were able to find it and drag it into the light - and it will be fixed in 0.5.1.1 (to be released on 13/11/2015).

 

What actually happened is that along with internal ricochet fix (see the opening post previous note to learn more) a new bug appeared. As a result, underwater shell ballistics was completely broken in 0.5.1. Let’s see how it worked before and actually should work after the patch:

  • AP shell hits the water near the ship;
  • It arms immediately;
  • Underwater it slows down and starts to “dive” towards the ship;
  • If it’s penetration power is good enough, it goes into the hull and detonates inside.

 

This scenario was quite common and it had particularly strong impact on battleships gameplay. It helped them greatly in damaging such modestly armoured targets as cruisers and not to worry about over-penetration. 

 

As we learned after two days of testing, the absence of this scenario in 0.5.1 was the main reason behind your negative experience with the update. We expect the fixed damage model to be almost identical to what you are used to.

 

We would like to thank you for your patience - now let's get out on the seven seas and let's sink some ships!

 

:izmena:

 

 

 

 

 

 

if this holds true and that was actually the issue, I'd like to sincerely apologize for my negativity a few posts ago - I'd just never noticed "splash hits" doing anything, probably because they were hidden amongst all the fireworks. But if those were actually responsible for a good deal of citadels, and were absent after 0.5.1, that would explain quite a bit, including the apparent increase in bounces and overpens from battleships on cruisers. Honestly, who among us, after firing a devastating salvo at a cruiser, went "hang on lets do the math here... I got two citadels and four hits, and with each citadel doing so much damage, that leaves this amout for the other four hits, which means those must have been another two regular pens and two overpens" instead of going "BOOOOYEAH TAKE THAT CRUISER PEASANT!!!!!!111one"? I can very well imagine those salvoes working out just like the ones we get now, i.e. the four regular hits often being two overpens and two bounces (which still feels strange but...), but being vastly overshadowed by the big numbers the two citadels gave out.

So if that holds true, good on you for finding and fixing the issue! Still leaves a couple of others to be fixed, chief among them the smoke stack, landing and Dogfighting issues, but it's a step in the right direction.


Tora Tora Tora


Hauptbahnhof #98 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:25 PM

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It could be interesting if there was some easy way to tell which hits went through water and which were direct impact. At least in the post battle analysis.

 

For example now that I know about this I will aim much lower when going broadside close-range in BB vs Cruiser or versus cruisers with little armor, to try to get citadels through water instead of over-pen.



Houmer_ #99 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:26 PM

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I dont believe that anything except going back to pre 5.1 will fix this situation regarding AP/HE shells properly. Every "fix" will cause only more and more imbalance as the ships are balanced according to pre 5.1 mechanics. 

 

Why not focus on dealing with other huge bugs of this patch and test new AP/HE mechanic changes PROPERLY on test servers? 

 

My experience says that every quick hotfix of unexpected and COMPLEX issue will only do more harm. Nobody complained about pre 5.1 AP mechanics so just go back and work this out properly. 

 

Also good job with "fixing" stuff that nobody minds without proper testing and ignoring stuff that everybody wants at the same time (unified account, economy fix, clans, depot). No wonder number of EU players is getting lower every week. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Houmer_, 12 November 2015 - 02:47 PM.


LittleGentleman #100 Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:53 PM

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Well done for admitting it. WoT is one of the most fairly balanced games PVP so I have faith in WG (even if it takes you a while).




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