Jump to content


Carriers are OP, Battleships are OP, Cruisers are OP, Destroyers are OP


  • Please log in to reply
923 replies to this topic

Ectar #1 Posted 03 July 2015 - 12:41 PM

    Warspite Captain

  • Alpha Tester

  • 671
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

*
POPULAR

Or are they?

 

With the opening of open beta testing, many new players are experiencing the game for the first time. Before creating a topic, I'd like to ask players to take note of a few specific threads:

 

[Basics] AA mechanics - Why is this thread important? - It helps players understand how the AA system works and to use it to your advantage when defending against torpedo and dive bombers.

[Guide] Basic CV gameplay - Why is this thread important?  - It not only teaches you how to play carriers (and understand how complex it can get) but also teaches you how to handle carrier attacks as you can learn how carrier players will try to attack you.

[Basics] Damage mechanics - Why is this thread important? - It's useful to know what shells to shoot and when. Also it's helpful for letting you know where to aim and what actually happens when you take massive damage from a single salvo/shot.

Matchmaker - Why is this thread important? - This lets you know what tiers of ships you can expect to face off against. - Very important point. If you mix tiers in a division, you'll always be put into the highest tier match possible. It's not possible to draw high tier ships into low tier matches.

 

Now to cover some basic points:

  • This isn't World of Tanks. - Many players will be coming from World of Tanks and whilst the game play may seem initially similar, it's very different.  A stationary ship is usually a dead ship as you become a very easy to hit target you can't really play peek-a-boo behind cover. Keep moving and adjust your speed and direction every so often (move in a zig zag). This makes it harder to hit you and throws off the torpedo predictor aim.
  • Torpedoes have a limit to their range. Make sure you know this limit and don't fire off torpedoes when they have no chance of hitting anything.
  • Torpedoes are dangerous. Try to avoid firing torpedoes when you have friendly ships between you and the enemy. At some point your friendly ships are going to have to take evasive manoeuvres to avoid being shot and it's very possible they'll need to turn right into where you've fired off your torpedoes.
  • Your ship speed doesn't affect gun accuracy. There is no need to slow down or stop to shoot.
  • Every ship shooting at you is NOT overpowered.  That's what it will feel like at the start until you learn the combat capabilities of the different classes, you'll then learn in time how to counter them and what to avoid depending on what you're sailing.
  • World of Warships works on a rock paper scissors system. Basically it means each class has a main counter. - Carriers counter Battleships. Battleships counter Cruisers. Cruisers counter Destroyers. Destroyers can counter anything providing they can get close enough. (Destroyers are probably one of the hardest classes to play as they're fragile). You'll find classes usually engaging each other at the start of battles as it's pretty equal footing and comes down to the skill of landing shots. (Carriers may try to sink each other at the start, Battleships will trade shots with each other, Destroyers will try to hunt each other etc).  In most 1 on 1 situations however with different classes, the counter to the class will usually win. 
  • WATCH YOUR MINI MAP - I've put this on caps as it's super important. If you're a Battleship then you must understand that Carrier players are likely to focus you. Because of this you need to be watching for torpedo plane squadrons coming your way.  Turning towards them is usually the best tactic, Zig-zagging doesn't work as well due to the slow rudder traverse of Battleships (you take a long time to switch directions). - Most Battleships are fairly good at turning one way quickly so use that to your advantage. - I know many people may feel it's impossible to dodge all the torpedoes. I'm not saying you will. With preperation and practise however you will dodge most of them. It's all about knowing what's coming and reacting to it before it happens.

 

As a final point there is lots, and I mean lots of helpful videos out there on YouTube and livestream on Twitch.  Use these resources to help you become a better player.  No one is able to dodge everything being shot and fired at them, but you can do a lot to minimize the damage taken. Situational awareness is key in World of Warships as is thinking ahead (where do I want to be in 5 mins, what direction do I want to be sailing? Will I need to switch my guns from port to starboard? Should I start moving to enemy base or moving to defend my base.). - All these things will come in time.

 

So chill out, don't panic and enjoy the discussions here on the forums.  Don't expect ships or entire classes to be removed because you had a bad game. It happens to everyone. Our Alpha Testers and Closed Beta Testers are a great bunch of people who are happy to help people willing to accept the help. It's a brave new world out there Captains. I wish you all smooth sailing and I'll see you out there on the high seas.


Edited by Ectar, 03 July 2015 - 03:12 PM.
added some new pinned threads


eluo #2 Posted 03 July 2015 - 12:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • In AlfaTesters

  • 785
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
nerf cv!!

Bl4ckh0g #3 Posted 03 July 2015 - 12:46 PM

    Midshipman

  • Weekend Tester

  • 1,668
  • Member since:
    02-09-2013

Is There a way to make this topic a Terms and Agreements like reading before the game? 

But, like you HAVE to read every single word in it to accept.

 

 


 "This should be something inspiring or thought-provoking quote from someone famous about life and death,

but truth is I couldn't think of anything so I am just writing this down, because It is kind of awkward not having a nice signature" - Me

 


TheDraconicLord #4 Posted 03 July 2015 - 01:17 PM

    Able Seaman

  • Beta Tester

  • 74
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

View PostEctar, on 03 July 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

So chill out, don't panic and enjoy the discussions here on the forums.  Don't expect ships or entire classes to be removed because you had a bad game. It happens to everyone. Our Alpha Testers and Closed Beta Testers are a great bunch of people who are happy to help people willing to accept the help. It's a brave new world out there Captains. I wish you all smooth sailing and I'll see you out there on the high seas.

 

This needs to be bold, caps, everything.

 

Awesome post. :honoring:

 

 



Mindfulcrane07 #5 Posted 03 July 2015 - 01:24 PM

    Midshipman

  • Supertester
  • Alpha Tester

  • 1,497
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013
yea really good post Ectar i also wish it was mandatory to read this before atleast posting on the forum :D

Official EU Teamspeak: 92.223.3.90:9989

Member of Odem Mortis International


Unintentional_submarine #6 Posted 03 July 2015 - 01:35 PM

    Commander

  • Beta Tester

  • 3,645
  • Member since:
    04-29-2015

View PostBl4ckh0g, on 03 July 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Is There a way to make this topic a Terms and Agreements like reading before the game? 

But, like you HAVE to read every single word in it to accept.

 

 

 

That would be pretty damn nice honestly. But I doubt it could be implemented.

 

Reading stickied topics is an age old skill of avoidance. Meaning people are super skilled at not doing it unfortunately. Those that do anyway are also the people the most unlikely to whine like a madman in the first place.


- World of Warships is a game featuring ten tiers, three of which are Tier 7.


painless #7 Posted 03 July 2015 - 01:46 PM

    Leading Rate

  • Weekend Tester

  • 128
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

Forum is severely OP nerf now plox!! or i will not buy any of them goldz and you will be hungry. Ha!

 

On a serious note, it will calm down, some people will realize that standing still in a BB is a bad thing, those who won't will eventually get tired of posting nerf plox threads and everything will soon degenderate to WOT forums level..


Edited by painless, 03 July 2015 - 01:48 PM.


VonNorwegen #8 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:02 PM

    Leading Rate

  • Beta Tester

  • 130
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

AA is very weak. I have seen several times planes flying over their target and then turn inside AA range, turn yet again and drop torpedoes . Without a single plane being shot down. Its just not realistic at all and is very forgiving to errors made by the cv player



Dyemor #9 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:08 PM

    Seaman

  • Players

  • 1
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostEctar, on 03 July 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

With the opening of open beta testing, many new players are experiencing the game for the first time. Before creating a topic, I'd like to ask players to take note of a few specific threads:

 

[Basics] AA mechanics - Why is this thread important? - It helps players understand how the AA system works and to use it to your advantage when defending against torpedo and dive bombers.

[Guide] Basic CV gameplay - Why is this thread important?  - It not only teaches you how to play carriers (and understand how complex it can get) but also teaches you how to handle carrier attacks as you can learn how carrier players will try to attack you.

 

 

Hey,

Thanks for the above post. I really would like to read those linked article but are they in the previous closed beta thread as I get an error when trying to access them. Many thanks Capt'n.



Ectar #10 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:23 PM

    Warspite Captain

  • Alpha Tester

  • 671
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostDyemor, on 03 July 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

Hey,

Thanks for the above post. I really would like to read those linked article but are they in the previous closed beta thread as I get an error when trying to access them. Many thanks Capt'n.

 

Fixed now, the Newcomer forum section should be visible for all new players joining with OBT.


Crysantos #11 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:24 PM

    German Community Coordinator

  • WG Staff

  • 1,465
  • Member since:
    04-14-2015

Hi,

 

There are a lot of topics concerning the "imbalance" of certain classes, many of them are not valid and more of an emotional response to personal bad experience ingame. But there is one class that is seriously unbalanced right now and if you take a look at statistics, is supported by data - the class of CVs. I think it's wrong to blame lack of knowledge of experience for the current issues, no video or tutorial will help experienced players with hundreds of battles to overcome the problems they have right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for CVs in a naval game but you need to tweak them. I'm playing mostly BBs, a friend of mine usually plays DDs and so we team up a lot of time. Many people complain about the obvious disadvantage of non-CV ships around Tier III-V that get wrecked by CVs due to lack of AA and experience. But even in higher Tier games the team with more (or the only CV) wins, in most cases. I think the question we need to ask ourselves is, what is the role we want them to play? Most think it's scouting and counter to BBs and I agree. Not hunting CAs and DDs.

 

Why is that so "overpowered" at the moment?

 

1. MM - unbalanced MM throws in lonely CVs, currently often 2-3 Tiers above the other ships, rendering their poor AA useless and no other CV to counter them

2. Carriers have no risk they take. After Tier V they are so fast that they can easily adapt and due to their scouting ability they're able to set course the right way.

3. Scouting - CVs can simply put a fighter group over a DD and take him out of the game, happens a lot

4. Dropping torpedoes at close range with low activation time - enables CVs to hunt down DDs and BBs are almost doomed to death, even experienced pilots due to their turning radius and ruder shifting time

5. airplane layout - too much focus on TB and no incentive to choose more fighters to counter other CVs if there are some ingame

 

I'm sure the lack of higher tier ships besides the premium ones is playing its part in this, but there's cetainly something wrong with the class when you take a look at the high tier CV pilots. Winrates beyond 70 up to 90+ percent, 2.5-x sunk ships per battle, 3.000 exp per battle are nothing uncommon there. It's unhealthy for the game and the morale. Yes, teamplay helps migitating the "power" of the CV, but in my opinion it can't be the goal of WoWS to put so much emphasis on one shipclass that it is able to dictate the battle (when your team has to stick together and the enemy can cap all bases, killing off your DDs who try to get them).

 

What could be done to counter this?

 

1. change the MM mechanics

  - take CVs out of Tier I - IV battles or ramp up the AA for these classes, we're open beta now, lot of seal clubbing going on

  - only same Tier CVs and no 1x CVs vs. no CV battles anymore

2. I'd be happy to see a nerf to the speed / concealment of CVs, but that's up to you. It's ridiculous imo when a CV is able to outrun a destroyer

3. change something about the scouting vs. DDs, but the MM balance should take care of "spare" fighters

4. increase the spread, drop range or / and activation range of the torpedoes, I'm not saying you should be able to avoid torpedoes, but if you're aware of them at least give you a chance to dodge most of it - and hunting a decent DD pilot shouldn't be viable

5. force CVs to choose more "balanced" squads on their CV

 

This is of course just my personal impression and opinion, but I do think something needs to be done. Teamplay and lack of experience may apply for lower Tier battles, but these issues arise in Tier VI+ the same way and the statistics of the CV captains prove to be similar on these higher classes.


Edited by Crysantos, 04 July 2015 - 11:48 PM.


Kirasa #12 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:34 PM

    Midshipman

  • Beta Tester

  • 1,520
  • Member since:
    12-28-2013

View PostCrysantos, on 03 July 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

1. change the MM mechanics

  - take CVs out of Tier I - IV battles or ramp up the AA for these classes, we're open beta now, lot of seal clubbing going on

  - only same Tier CVs and no 1x CVs vs. no CV battles anymore

2. I'd be happy to see a nerf to the speed / concealment of CVs, but that's up to you. It's ridiculous imo when a CV is able to outrun a destroyer

3. change something about the scouting, but the MM balance should take care of "spare" fighters

4. increase the spread, drop range or / and activation range of the torpedoes, I'm not saying you should be able to avoid torpedoes, but if you're aware of them at least give you a chance to dodge most of it - and hunting a decent DD pilot shouldn't be viable

5. force CVs to choose more "balanced" squads on their CV

 

This is of course just my personal impression and opinion, but I do think something needs to be done. Teamplay and lack of experience may apply for lower Tier battles, but these issues arise in Tier VI+ the same way and the statistics of the CV captains prove to be similar on these higher classes.

 

To 1:

Lower Tier ships won't meet a CV unless they are dumb enough to make a Division with a T4 ship. T3 ships are the first to meet T4 CVs.

And no, only CV vs CV is just not possible yet on all tiers, since there are just not enough CV players. Do you want to punish CV players with very long waiting times until the MM finally finds an opponent? If yes, sorry, but that's just bad manners from your side.

To 2:

CVs are traditionally FAST. Pure and simple. They just CAN outrun other ships.

Also, CVs are flat. You don't see them good from the sides, but good from Air.

To 3:

There were already a lot of discussions about spotting by planes. No change planned atm afaik. And, unless you are talking about High Tier, the CV only has one FC or max 2 FC, which can spot. The map is big enough to still have place for your DD to be unspotted.

To 4:

Spread is already to big for IJN, and activation range is fine too. The approach was changed at the end of OBT and apparently it was too much of a change in the test, so it was undone.

Hunting a decent DD skipper should still be possible, if the skill of the CV skipper is high enough. You can't just say "I play DD, I'm immune to CVs"

To 5:

Oh great, just don't give any choice to CV skippers. You really have your unsocial day, eh?

 

 

 

On another note just for you: There are already a lot of CV Balancing Threads on the forum. How about using one of those for mentioning your points? Since they were already discussed.



Crysantos #13 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:46 PM

    German Community Coordinator

  • WG Staff

  • 1,465
  • Member since:
    04-14-2015

View PostKirasa, on 03 July 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

To 1:

Lower Tier ships won't meet a CV unless they are dumb enough to make a Division with a T4 ship. T3 ships are the first to meet T4 CVs.

And no, only CV vs CV is just not possible yet on all tiers, since there are just not enough CV players. Do you want to punish CV players with very long waiting times until the MM finally finds an opponent? If yes, sorry, but that's just bad manners from your side.

To 2:

CVs are traditionally FAST. Pure and simple. They just CAN outrun other ships.

Also, CVs are flat. You don't see them good from the sides, but good from Air.

To 3:

There were already a lot of discussions about spotting by planes. No change planned atm afaik. And, unless you are talking about High Tier, the CV only has one FC or max 2 FC, which can spot. The max is big enough to still have place for your DD to be unspotted.

To 4:

Spread is already to big for IJN, and activation range is fine too. The approach was changed at the end of OBT and apparently it was too much of a change in the test, so it was undone.

Hunting a decent DD skipper should still be possible, if the skill of the CV skipper is high enough. You can't just say "I play DD, I'm immune to CVs"

To 5:

Oh great, just don't give any choice to CV skippers. You really have your unsocial day, eh?

 

 

 

On another note just for you: There are already a lot of CV Balancing Threads on the forum. How about using one of those for mentioning your points? Since they were already discussed.

 

I'm looking for a solution that suits all players, that's all. I'm tired of being told that CVs are fine and the people are just unexperienced or don't play as a team - we're not and we play as a team, doesn't help with the current issues mentioned above. The CV pilot doesn't need a good team to survive, but the enemy is forced to do so. But I guess that's very social, why am I even trying to post a constructive thing about this when I get to hear the same old stories of people who're driving CVs. Am I wrong about the stats? It is social when you ask everybody else to adapt but you're not willing to adapt when there's a lack of CV players to fill up fair teams for matches? Isn't unsocial to make use of an obvious unbalanced overpowered shipclass at the moment? I'm pretty sure the Taiho captains are VERY aware of the current issues and that they're pretty much alone on that Tier - instead of choosing a lower Tier ship they choose to swing their torp hammer on lower Tier ships.

 

So I guess I'm unsocial when I'm asking for a solution that enables the majority of players to enjoy fair and fun games, "lowering" the fun of top tier captains enjoying to use their top-Tier ships to pat their stats. Why I'm posting here? Quite frankly because people are told to shape up instead of complaining about imbalance, even when it's a valid complaint. But meh, probably just me spinning wild tales about this non-existing issue.



SanyaJuutilainen #14 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:50 PM

    Seaman

  • Alpha Tester

  • 18
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostVonNorwegen, on 03 July 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

AA is very weak. I have seen several times planes flying over their target and then turn inside AA range, turn yet again and drop torpedoes . Without a single plane being shot down. Its just not realistic at all and is very forgiving to errors made by the cv player

 

AA of - for example - battleships WAS very weak. It took lots of luck and projectiles to shoot down a plane or two. Unless you are talking CAs - for whom airplanes are easy prey - it is really supposed to be this weak, more of a support or a chance.

Ectar #15 Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:55 PM

    Warspite Captain

  • Alpha Tester

  • 671
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Can we please avoid turning the thread into a "This is how I think XYZ should be balance" thread. The intention here is to help other players and reassure them. Not to debate the balance of different classes.


Mindfulcrane07 #16 Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:01 PM

    Midshipman

  • Supertester
  • Alpha Tester

  • 1,497
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013

Ectar could you maybe ad Basic dmg mechanics http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18034-basics-damage-mechanics/page__p__327054#entry327054

and MM mechanics http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18094-matchmaker/page__p__327607#entry327607


Official EU Teamspeak: 92.223.3.90:9989

Member of Odem Mortis International


Ectar #17 Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:03 PM

    Warspite Captain

  • Alpha Tester

  • 671
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

 

Sure thing, also pinned those threads


Vincinzerei #18 Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:05 PM

    Midshipman

  • Alpha Tester

  • 1,424
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Please have a look at this Posting:
http://forum.worldof...read-their-aim/

you said "tagging them with aa spread their aim"
and everybody say.. no.

so.. should it.. or not?

Egal was euch passiert ist, ob nun Torpedos aus einem Berg kommen, ein Zerstörer auf 1km unsichtbar wird oder eine Langley euch mit 3 Torpedostaffeln angreift.

Ohne Replay glaubt euch kein Mensch! Also immer Replay dazu packen.. dann kann es jeder sehen!

      

  Also on Youtube for your entertainment..


CommanDos23I23 #19 Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:06 PM

    Seaman

  • Players

  • 2
  • Member since:
    06-22-2015


Tugnut #20 Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:17 PM

    Midshipman

  • Supertester

  • 1,273
  • Member since:
    11-15-2012
Wow just wow you make a post to try stop nerf posts so they then posts there nerf crud here....need to get some beer and crisps lets see where this goes.





7 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 7 guests, 0 anonymous users