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A hypothetical conversation with a new player who came for "World of Battleships"


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Figment #1 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:11 AM

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Hi new guy! Welcome to World of Warships!

 

 

What's that? Isn't this "World of Battleships"? You googled "World of Battleships" and ended up here? Heh. Okay. (Actually works that way btw..) No actually, it's really called "World of Warships". As in warships in general. Yes, really. I'm not joking. See? It's even in the banner over the forums.

 

So anyway, you're new here? Come to play some ships? Battleships? Ah. Because you remember those awesome, impressive, grand historical names like Bismarck, Yamato, Iowa, Arizona and Tirpitz and want to own oneAaah. We have a connoisseur! "Of course" you do! You want them big guns! Don't you? You can just feel the weight of that armour. You can smell the smell of gunpowder and salty sea air when your nine 410mm cannons and all your extra 140mm and 127mm cannons have fired! You can't wait to wield all that raw power! Right? Excellent! Because we have those right here! What's that? Oh you've already played a bit? A couple of cruisers you forgot the names of and you're well on your way in the first "real ships" of the IJN BB line? A grand total of 27 matches so far? That's a nice start.

 

 

Say, what about some battlecruisers? They're pretty much battleships right? Kongo, Fuso, Amagi? Yeah okay. They're big enough and they gotz gunz. 1337. Great. You'll happily play those and they're in the BB line anyway so yeah. Besides! Big guns. That's what you're talking about!

 

 

Cruisers. You like cruisers? They're okay? Maybe if they have big guns and lots of 'm you say. Not the wee ones. Okay fine. Let's see. St. Louis? Cleveland? Baltimore? Des Moines? Zao?

 

 

...Oh.

 

 

Never really heard of those? Did you know some of these have like... twelve, fifteen 155 or 203mm rapid fire cannons? No, but that sounds cool? Really? That got you interested? Ah you can imagine the sweet spam to kill all those inferior ship creatures with! Great! Bet you'll be playing these at some point then? Okay, okay. After the battleships. Fair enough.

 

 

So uhm. Ever heard of the Independence? Saipan? Essex? Hirju? Hosho?

 

 

No? Well they're aircraft carriers, they send out aircraft across the map to sink ships, primarily battleships cause those are the biggest targets with the biggest guns and don't usualy have super AA like some cruisers. What? What's with the "ewww" and the sour face? Ooooh. "Sky cancers". You think it's "lame and boring" to "sit in the back and kill you in safety with nothing you can do against them". You wanted to play big ass guns and not "wussy artillery like in WoT"? Oh. Right, so uhm, you do know... that... these things killed the dinosaurs called battleships from modern warfare? Right? And you actually have to plan even more than you did with artillery? And that you can counter them by shooting down their aircraft with your AA and dodging their torpedoes and bombs? Ah. You still hate them anyway for being out of your direct range from the start so you can't pummel their defenseless hulls to death while they engage you with aircraft, "because that'd be fair"... Well. They're in the game. You can still try them out, see how they play, maybe learn how to deal with them as a battleship in the process...? No? They should just leave you alone while you're busy firing at "real" targets and you shouldn't be told to play boring stuff? Ah...

 

So... I guess you're not going to play those? No. Okay. Shame, your loss. What's that? You'd rather they be removed completely as that'd really improve gameplay for everyone? What about the people who like CVs and the small units that need support? Oh okay, they're allowed to be there, as long as they're not going to bother you, sink you on their own and if they do you'll have the right to come to the forums and get them "balanced"? ... Okaaaay. What's that? Like cruiser players, they should just sail around such that you are provided with air cover so that YOU can fire at others and deal the damage and not be interrupted in your dueling by having to "constantly dodge torpedoes and not get a shot on target throughout the entire match"? Okaaaay.

 

 

So uhm... I'm afraid to ask. Do you also remember these names: Clemson? Mutsuki? Hatsuharu? Nicholas? Umikaze? Mahan?

 

 

...No? What? No. No, they're not forms of sushi or shellfish. They're destroyers. What destroyers are? Oh they're smaller escort and hit and run ships that largely don't rely on their cannons, but for instance can cap, lay smoke screens and... I'm sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of your sudden desinterest. Ah... I see. They're too small for you to have read about, they're just for lowly support players and clearly since they don't have at least cannons larger than 203mm they're... not really all that interesting to you? Oh I'm sorry, what you said was they're just not interesting as a unit and shouldn't have any major impact in the game and stay out of the way of the "big dogs", maybe fight with each other a bit, but definitely not meddle in your affairs. ...Well... You do know they got torpedoes right? Oh I see I got your interest now! Yeah! Torpedoes are hot man! A volley or two hitting can sink pretty much any ship! Including battleships! Yeah man, ambushes of these can be deadly to any ship close range! And some can even fire them from 20km away and hit something if they're really, really lucky!

 

Uhm... Are you alright? You suddenly look so pale? "Sneak attacks, sniper attacks and shotguns to the face are OP and lame?" And... You actually just came to this forums because after 12 matches you already realised that these torpedo... "devil's spawn and incarnations of evil" and which "clearly are OP?" Say what now? Destroyers are like the original upgraded KV-1 in WoT (KV-2 turret with 152mm cannon)?! Uhm no. No they're not. They're like T-49s. Hellcats maybe. Definitely not like a massive armoured thing you can barely hurt, if hurt at all due to armour and hitpoint advantage. That would be the battleships with respect to destroyers if they had no torpedoes... What do you mean, "you meant just the cannon that one hits, sheesh"? No... No they don't "one hit" like a KV-2. They need a lot of hits... Sure, potentially in one strike, but then you didn't get out of the way... How so "pinpoint accuracy?" Who said that? ...That guy has 6% accuracy with them! He has 28% accuracy with cannons. What's more accurate!? Spammed? You got maybe 12, 24 fired at you throughout the match? How many shells did you fire in that same time? 200? 400? Oh but those can't deal 10K damage a piece... Riiiiight.

 

...Oh. So you came here just to tell us using your massive pool of all-round experience how the gameplay of a BB could be improved by nerfing its single most deadly opponent that's not another BB?

 

 "Units shouldn't be able to one hit other ships? Oh. You should be able to kill smaller and lower tier ships, obviously, but just battleships shouldn't be easy to kill? You know these things you wish to nerf got next to no hitpoints, no significant cannons of their own whatsoever and you can "shotgun them" right back at longer ranges than they can, right? You know you can one hit pretty much any class of ship yourself at virtually any range and even quite likely at ranges they can't even fire at you from as long as they've been spotted? What's that? "Sure, but you're supposed to because you're a big ship" and "they're not supposed to because you're big and they're small"? "You're a relevant unit of the period and they're not and they thus shouldn't stand a chance before you"? "You should not be preoccupied with these small, irrelevant units you can hardly aim for anyway when you could be firing at actual relevant units like enemy battleships and thus you won't even bother trying to"? "Everyone should tremble before you and everyone on your side should just be there to support your every move and cover for your tactical mistakes, shield you from AA and ensure others don't cap zons so you can just sit back and deal with those big ships on the other side doing the same camping as you?" Uhm. Really?

 

 

...Oh...

 

 

 

Well.

 

 

 

Thing is.

 

 

 

They're in this game too.

 

 

 

And they're all manned by players.

 

 

So no.

 

 

No no no no no. No. NO.

 

 

This is a game. Every. Single. Player. Is. Relevant. Regardless of their tool, they should be equals in potential. Not in capacity, some players are simply better than others, but in the potential average damage that a tool can provide to a good player within the playstyle of the ship and with balanced higher and lower risks, advantages and disadvantages that go with these playstyles. This provides not just balance, it provides variety, counters and makes all units interesting by making them viable in their own right and makes the match making less sensitive to having various amounts of unit classes on each side. Maybe YOU came here to play just the big battleships. But others came in to play a game with warships. Not just the big ships. And there's very good reasons for that.

 

Think of it as a game where you have snipers, heavies, scouts, spies... What's that? Spies are "lame and you wish they were removed from Team Fortress because they keep backstabbing you"? Uhm... Whatever. Okay. Different analogy then... Think of it as a game with combined arms, tanks, infantry, aircraft, anti-air... What? Anti-Air should be killed as easily if not more easily by air as air by anti-air because they're ground units and you're an anti-ground unit vehicle while playing aircraft, while you're also already an anti-air unit so an anti-air unit that's solely designed to kill your kind of unit should not interfere with your dogfights because that would ruin your fun of shooting and killing at every type of unit yourself as that's what you're supposed to do? Uhm... You don't see a problem with that reasoning? ...You don't...

 

Argh! Fine! ANOTHER different analogy! You know how in some games you have palladins, warlocks, rogues... What do you mean you hate rogues for being dishonourable backstabbing little ****** and the game would be so much better if it was just palladins and some healers that come running at your beckening to heal you up? You know it's funny, did you know the battleships have healing skills with which they can repair damage? Ah you love that about battleships in World of Warships? Why? Oh because in other games, as a palladin, you couldn't ever trust there to be enough of those ******* lame healers when you needed one, them always dieing without cover or simply nobody getting one as everyone's a palladin, so it would make more sense if you could just do that yourself. ...Ah. So why didn't you play healer back then? Oh I'm sorry that I was kidding you, "obviously" you're above playing "weak **** support classes that can't even kill a boss on their own because they don't have the hp or damage dealing to tank damage like a real man and are so lame that they kept healing up just as you were about to kill them while you ran out of health cause you wern't allowed to heal up... Yeah. That was so unfair that it takes them ages to kill you but just won't die due to healing themselves and you should really just have been able to take them out in a couple massive blows cause that's what your unit is all about. Of course I should have known that's not your thing...

 

So I guess you have no problem with being a self-healing, scouting, tanking damage, heavy damaging unit. Just as long as you don't have to encounter something that can kill you in a short timespan. Because that would be unfair as it's your job to do that to others who aren't self-healing and can't tank damage and we couldn't have other units thinking they actually mattered to the fight and sink something. Right? Because that would obviously be 'overpowered'.

 

 

Right...

 

 

I'm glad you know with 100% certainty you make sense, aren't a one-trick pony player, have so much empathy for others and don't feel like an absolute hypocrit and rather self-interested, prejudiced person.

 

 

Happy sailing, cap'n. And welcome to the forums. I'm sure you'll find a thread where you'll feel right at home, nerfing away at those players who "don't like a challenge" when they picked a unit that's clearly inferior to your own and even have the balls to claim they had a right to sink you on equal terms for the good of the game... Your problems with this game have absolutely NOTHING to do with lacking experience, tunnelvision instead of situational awareness, a skewed expectation of what the game would offer you and a false evaluation due to bias of what roles you think ships should have opposed to how the classes were set up to be competitive with one another. Among other things. You're right. It's everyone's fault, but yours. Everything is OP. Except for you. You should have more power. You should rule the waves. Alone. Without opposition but people like you. Because that's fun. That's World of Battleships. That's the game you came here for.

 

[/rant]

 

Disclaimers: Above conversation is a charicature and a parody, but compounds a very large number of actual arguments and statements used by at least a dozen people in CBT debates. No arguments, but instead attitudes towards other classes and players are derived from denigrating terminology and other condescending statements made and illustrates a stereotype that I would imagine is quite recognisable to many people. Above conversation is not meant to insult or ridicule any particular person. It should not be considered stigmatisation of any particular person, or of a in matches class biased player, but rather the attitude of people who come in a game and are only interested in one class and themselves and give every reason to suspect them of this. Above conversation illustrates the author as impersonating the debate experience and frustration of players who feel that all classes need to have something that makes different playstyles as viable and capable as one another, be it in different ways, to be able to work in a game, with no bias to any class. As such, it should be taken as a warning: know what you are getting into when you enter these forums. Author tries to play all lines of ship equally, and played relatively more matches per ship in BBs and CVs. Mostly due to available lines: cruisers and DDs have been played sado-masochistically the most in total as there were two lines of each (all pre 0.3.1 classes up to tier 7-8 leveled when possible). No actual people fitting the entire stereotype were harmed during the making of this post. Sorry, no refunds. For compensation for broken sarcasm-o-meters and crushed hopes of "humanity improving when new games are launched", I'm afraid your insurance will not cover this. And yes. We're doomed. There's more of them out there. They'll be here every year. Every month. Every week. Every day. For what will feel like an eternity. Be ready for them. I for one, am already very much done with these conversations.


Edited by Figment, 22 May 2015 - 01:56 AM.


Aerroon #2 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:18 AM

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+1 would read again. Spot on.
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Madhax #3 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:26 AM

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Good read!

Made me smile  :)



OVanBruce #4 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:46 AM

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Welcome to the world of most Alpha and Supertesters Figment.

 

And yeah, I really cower in fear thinking about the time when OBT comes. We may not be able to hold all breaches.


How I feel when playing cruiser. Add denpa music for maximum effect


playarci #5 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:47 AM

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You are not new to this, are you.

Djansolo #6 Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:56 AM

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So uhm. Ever heard of the Independence? Saipan? Essex? Hirju? Hosho?

 

Personally I think its a great omission, that we only have one carrier in the game from the greatest battle of them all: Midway

 

Hiryu is here for its class, so that covers Soryu.

But where are the 2 big ones, Akagi and Kaga?

Akagi was Nagumos flagship at both Pearl Harbour and Midway, making it an obvious choice for a premuim too.

 

And where are the US carriers that if not won the war, then stopped the Japanese untill the Essex and Indepence classes came flooding in their great numbers?

The Yourktown class is completely missing !

Yourktown, who was patched together after Coral Sea, and sunk at Midway.

Hornet, who should be here for the Doolittle raid alone. Btw can we get B-25s in our airgroup :)

And last but not least ofc the big E for Enterprise. The true legend of the pacific campaign. Listing this ships achievements should be unnessesary. And it will ofc be available later as a moneygrab premium because of some second rate scifi show, when it should be front and center on its real merits!

"The world wonders"

 


Edited by Djansolo, 22 May 2015 - 12:58 AM.


Sharana #7 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:07 AM

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View PostDjansolo, on 22 May 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

The true legend of the pacific campaign...

 

That will be premium or reward ship.



Djansolo #8 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:32 AM

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View PostSharana, on 22 May 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

That will be premium or reward ship.

Ofc it will, the whole concept of premiums makes it the most obvious choice.

But that doesnt mean we sould not get the Yourktownn class in the normal tree.

But maybe that will come at a much later date, when the expand the CV tree to two different branches CV and CVE/CVL.

I can understand if thats not a priority for WG, and I would rather have more nations, than more trees in current nations.



OVanBruce #9 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:36 AM

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View PostDjansolo, on 22 May 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

Hiryu is here for its class, so that covers Soryu.

 

Just wanted to point out the Hiryuu and Soryuu are 2 different, single ship, classes. Yeah, they sound a lot like they are the same class but Hiryuu is an improved Soryuu.

How I feel when playing cruiser. Add denpa music for maximum effect


Takeda92 #10 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:37 AM

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It was perfect......

 

 

until this:

 

Quote

So uhm... I'm afraid to ask. Do you also remember these names: Clemson? Mogami? Kuma? Nicholas? Umikaze? Mahan?

 

 

...No? What? No. No, they're not forms of sushi or shellfish. They're destroyers.

:sceptic:

You were spot on on most stuff so +1 :honoring:


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Djansolo #11 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:43 AM

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View PostOVanBruce, on 22 May 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

 

Just wanted to point out the Hiryuu and Soryuu are 2 different, single ship, classes. Yeah, they sound a lot like they are the same class but Hiryuu is an improved Soryuu.

I stand corrected. Always just thought of them as the same.



Calapine #12 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:54 AM

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I agree with the premise. The game needs to be renamed "World of Battleships" and all other ship classes removed! It's for the best, trust me!:P


Edited by Calapine, 22 May 2015 - 01:54 AM.


Figment #13 Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:55 AM

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View PostTakeda92, on 22 May 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

It was perfect......

 

 

until this:

 

:sceptic:

You were spot on on most stuff so +1 :honoring:

Ah sorry, yeah. Restructured the post, initial phrasing contained light cruisers with torps too, but decided to focus that alinea more on destroyers and work up to a climax of BB fear with torps being revealed. :) Sorry about that. Fixed! Thanks for pointing it out. :)

 

View Postplayarci, on 22 May 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

You are not new to this, are you.

 

Sadly no. I would not have my straightforward abbrasive posting style if I still had patience for these people. But a few decades of online gaming, development forums and project groups in several engineering studies at university teaches you otherwise.


Edited by Figment, 22 May 2015 - 02:02 AM.


Pivke #14 Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:22 AM

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it took me about 30 minutes to read the whole thing, but it was f***ing awesome!

 

this deserves a sticky

or even better idea

make this text an intro movie in the game (rolling like star wars movie intro text! (with epic music))


つ ◕_◕ ༽つ FIX MATCHMAKING! つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ OR RIOT! つ ◕_◕ ༽つ


chaplainDMK #15 Posted 22 May 2015 - 04:36 AM

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View PostDjansolo, on 22 May 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

So uhm. Ever heard of the Independence? Saipan? Essex? Hirju? Hosho?

 

Personally I think its a great omission, that we only have one carrier in the game from the greatest battle of them all: Midway

 

Hiryu is here for its class, so that covers Soryu.

But where are the 2 big ones, Akagi and Kaga?

Akagi was Nagumos flagship at both Pearl Harbour and Midway, making it an obvious choice for a premuim too.

 

And where are the US carriers that if not won the war, then stopped the Japanese untill the Essex and Indepence classes came flooding in their great numbers?

The Yourktown class is completely missing !

Yourktown, who was patched together after Coral Sea, and sunk at Midway.

Hornet, who should be here for the Doolittle raid alone. Btw can we get B-25s in our airgroup :)

And last but not least ofc the big E for Enterprise. The true legend of the pacific campaign. Listing this ships achievements should be unnessesary. And it will ofc be available later as a moneygrab premium because of some second rate scifi show, when it should be front and center on its real merits!

"The world wonders"

 

 

They were used in a one-off operation and couldn't land back on the ship the launched from. This is the absurdity the OP satired in Battleship players.

 

Otherwise USS Enterprise will be premium, since it wasn't a class. The standard ship will be the Yorktown. Probably will come at the same tier as the Lexingtons, maybe part of a second CV tree for the USN,


Edited by chaplainDMK, 22 May 2015 - 04:37 AM.


Nethraniel #16 Posted 22 May 2015 - 05:02 AM

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Great read for my morning coffee... +1 :trollface:

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Ishiro32 #17 Posted 22 May 2015 - 05:48 AM

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I love reading some good old cynical banter in the morning. 

MacHopper #18 Posted 22 May 2015 - 05:50 AM

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So very true, and so I had to give you a +1 Figment.

I don't like playing Carriers, but I don't think they are OP, UP or rubbish. Its just that I personally don't enjoy the RTS style gameplay. I do respect a good Carrier Jock though.

I know it seems like we're drowning in BBs at the moment, but that's only happened because of the newly released US line rather than a one-track-mind interest in BBs and nothing else by players. Just before 0.3.1 came out, I'd say most battles were approximately 1-2 CVs, 2-4 BBs and the rest CAs, CLs and DDs. Once people "get over" (ie get to tiers VI - VIII) with them, they'll rediscover those Clevelands and Aobas decorating their Harbours.

 

And if there are players who "only" want to play BBs, then time and battles is the best cure. Eventually they'll start getting owned by rather elite CA and DD Captains. Then BB Captains will be seen tentatively nosing their way out of harbour in their dusty and rust-streaked tier II CLs and DDs.

ALTHOUGH.... Because this is to some degree an Arcade over Simulator style of game, BBs will always be much stronger (just think of WoT and the Heavy Tanks - the dinosaurs of land warfare out-evolved by the medium > MBT line, yet all powerful because its "real" natural predators, ie Airstrikes, Infantry, HEAVY and adjusted Artillery fire, are absent.). When Clan Wars/Team Battles finally arrive for WoWS, then we'll learn if the same WoT meta holds true here or if there will be some other kind (like maybe DD spam with Scout plane and large caliber-armed CAs and CVs in support).


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xBamBamx #19 Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:10 AM

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I reserve judgment until the the end of OBT/beginning of release coupled with an outline of their plan for next tech tree/ships.  As it stands in CBT i feel its the system, servers, mechanics, balance and laods of other testing behind the scenes that they are focussing on.  All of the great ships will make an appearance (how can they not) in order for this to be successful, I read half your rant and stopped as its just a rant and your ranting at a c l o s e d beta game about things that will be changed, its not as if this is going to be the final release.  WG DO LISTEN to us and constructive criticism is appreciated.  I like the fact you put so much effort into your post so +1 for that.


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Alokas_noobie #20 Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:12 AM

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Nice post. :honoring:

 

What will happen if WG makes WoBB and WoHT battle modes?

Or should it be WoCV and WoMT? 






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